J30 strike: NUT, PCS, UCU, ATL call for a general strike on June 30th
- Thread starter ymu
- Start date
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Are you really that thick? I'm agreeing that it wasn't spent wisely. Pillock.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Okay, sorry. I misread that.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The problem with that point is that the reason why Osborne (and Cameron) were claiming that was because of several reasons unconnected with economic policy, not the least of which is that they were desperately trying to detoxify the "Tory brand", which of course meant not being seen to cut spending.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
No need to get nasty.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
There's no need for you to lie and dissemble and deliberately distort, nor for you to ignore and pretend, but you've done all of them in almost every post. So why dont you just fuck off to your fictitious child you worthless lump of shit?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
And because they thought the policies were working. You cannot deny that.
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
That's a killer argument, yes sir.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Oh dear. Temper temper!
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
[/enjoyable conversation]
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
there's no point arguing with him tho is there? he just ignores any points made and repeats his lies. So 'fuck off' is a very generous thing to say to him really. Politer than anything he has come out with
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Why do you think I'm a man? Why don't you believe I've got a child? I find this really weird.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I believe you have a child. I am just amazed that you don't love your child enough to want him/her to have a decent education just so you can save a bit of tax. Do you object to him/her having a local GP, dentist, optician too?
I feel sorry for your kid having such a selfish neglectful parent that cares so little about her child's future they are happy for them to be taught by second rate, underpaid, demoralised, resentful 68 year old teachers pushing zimmer frames and watching the clock
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
So you're saying that if the teachers have to pay a bit more into their pension, they will refuse to give my child a decent education?
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
I'm trying to have a discussion. Why don't you join in, instead of making silly personal comments?
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I'm saying that if the profession doesn't offer the most attractive pay and conditions possible then it will fail to attract the best people available. They will take their skills elsewhere. It's not rocket science. You get what you pay for. I want my child to be taught by the best and so should you.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
because when I did join in, you chose to ignore any points made, to deliberately distort whatever is said in response to you, and to make things up, you are explicitly NOT 'joining in', so why should anyone play your games? You are a proven liar, so you should, to be fair, fuck off.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Yes. Now, what do you dispute about my analysis of the data, which is the primary evidence my argument is based on? I was referring to Osbourne's deceit, not his competence as chancellor.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Teachers have never earned the most attractive pay and conditions possible, though. So does this mean that the current teachers are second-rate?
past caring
The Cathars were right
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
It's quite amusing how so many of you have to insult me, just because you disagree with me. It's very childish.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
corrected for you
dylans
overlord of all acorns
That's an absurd argument because you are arguing it from a point of view of wanting to worsen pay and conditions. I think the profession has many wonderful people in it. My kids teachers do a great job and my son loves his school. That said, clearly the profession could do better yes but worsening pay and conditions will only make things worse. We should be paying teachers more and offering better conditions in order to attract the best people possible not attacking them and driving the best people out of the profession
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Many, I would say most, people value security rather more highly than money. That's not to say they want to be poor, but a secure job and reasonable pay would be more attractive to most than a more risky occupation and a bigger house.
Which is why you don't fuck with pensions when they have been part of pay negotiation. Pay is considerably lower in the public sector, and that has been agreed to in return for more flexible working conditions, fairer sick pay and a secure pension. You cannot take those things away without also renegotiating pay and backdating the pay award for any elements that have been reneged on.
Do that, and I'll be happy. I could do with a nice fat cheque right now.
Tbf Labour did make some horrendous fuck-ups. Agricola is quite right to point out that a lot of the money Labour did spend, it spent badly. Tipping huge amounts of money into the privatised railway rather than grasping the nettle and renationalising the lot (for British Rail in its later years was a lot more efficient and required far less of a subsidy than the railway does now) is one good example. Another is the PFI, which even the Major government had realised was a bad idea since, although it kept the initial outlay on schools and hospitals (which was much needed after eighteen years of Tory neglect!) off the government's books, it tied the Treasury into very long-term commitments of money for no benefit. One could also point to the way Labour unquestioningly accepted the Tory idea that the NHS (and much of the rest of the public sector) should ape the private sector, with a split between clients and providers and an internal market, leading to endless bureaucracy and all kinds of unnecessary costs.
Seems to me, in fact, that where Labour did fuck up, it usually did so by trying to be Tory. Which is why the Tory critique of Labour's record in office is just hypocrisy, given that a) as you point out, Osborne was pledging to match Labour's spending plans, and b) it's extremely difficult to argue that a Tory government over the last decade would have done much better than Labour at cooling down the overheated housing market or to regulate the over-powerful and irresponsible financial services sector any more tightly, both of which left us badly exposed to the recession.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
That all depends on what you mean by "working" - economically (and morally, tbh) it was fairly obvious that the policies they (Labour) were embarking on were wrong, but politically it was not yet obvious - and as I said above, Cameron et al were focused on the politics, not the economics.
