Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[mojo pixy]

when you point a finger, three fingers point back at you.
Trisha said that, so fuck you.

(EtA, seems like a good point to return to lurking)

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

You know what, I'm not projecting anything on anyone. I'm playing out my own little dystopian post-brexit fantasy (we all have 'em, come on) and you're responding like it's way more than that. Fair enough, but it's not.

No the exchange predates the rickets and that by one post but let’s not derail much further

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

when you point a finger, three fingers point back at you.
Trisha said that, so fuck you.

(EtA, seems like a good point to return to lurking)

Cause of me? I’m a part time poster, this is sport, real life is caring for the dying and bringing up a boy. If you leave pretty much the best place on the internet for learning it would be shit. White flag!

 

[mojo pixy]

More seriously then, Brexit as it stands is pure bourgeois. There's nothing working-class in it, except some of the votes. There's no benefits in it for me or anyone I know, not that I can make out - no benefits have been talked about and none are obvious to me. And the process itself - the one that's actually happening so far - is for bourgeois aims, using bourgeois slogans, and to benefit the rich like every other fucking thing in this country.

So there's that.

 

[Dogsauce]

Am I noticing in press and politics that there is more serious talk of a second ref happening now? Didn’t think it would come about and pretty sure it won’t help things, but now I’m less sure as it’s being presented as a possible option more frequently on BBC news and by gov and opposition politicians, on the assumption that May’s ‘deal’ is rejected.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

More seriously then, Brexit as it stands is pure bourgeois. There's nothing working-class in it, except some of the votes. There's no benefits in it for me or anyone I know, not that I can make out - no benefits have been talked about and none are obvious to me. And the process itself - the one that's actually happening so far - is for bourgeois aims, using bourgeois slogans, and to benefit the rich like every other fucking thing in this country.

So there's that.

I ken that, it was a bourgeoise Brexit and bourgeois remain. but change requires movement at least. It’s only been two years though but there’s certainly signs the tide is changing and not in the direction everyone predicted it would. Peedie weys aye, but who on urban suggested we were working on anything shorter than a 10-20 year plan.

 

[Duncan2]

Am I noticing in press and politics that there is more serious talk of a second ref happening now? Didn’t think it would come about and pretty sure it won’t help things, but now I’m less sure as it’s being presented as a possible option more frequently on BBC news and by gov and opposition politicians, on the assumption that May’s ‘deal’ is rejected.

This is how it currently seems to me also.The received wisdom seems to be that as a matter of mathematics May's deal is dead and more and more pundits are classifying no-deal as just one of those things that can't happen-which leaves the option of a second referendum.If we have a second referendum its quite possible that the result will be something like 52% remain and 48% leave.Maybe there would not then be bloody revolution but to say that things could get bitter would definitely be an under-statement in my honest opinion.

 

[mauvais]

Again, as opposed to the happy cakewalk that is a Brexit of some form?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

This is how it currently seems to me also.The received wisdom seems to be that as a matter of mathematics May's deal is dead and more and more pundits are classifying no-deal as just one of those things that can't happen-which leaves the option of a second referendum.If we have a second referendum its quite possible that the result will be something like 52% remain and 48% leave.Maybe there would not then be bloody revolution but to say that things could get bitter would definitely be an under-statement in my honest opinion.

Well no it won’t because as I understand there will be two leave options and one remain- so it will go remain.

 

[Supine]

You are ALL a bunch of faggots!

Great input

 

[mojo pixy]

I ken that, it was a bourgeoise Brexit and bourgeois remain. but change requires movement at least. It’s only been two years though but there’s certainly signs the tide is changing and not in the direction everyone predicted it would. Peedie weys aye, but who on urban suggested we were working on anything shorter than a 10-20 year plan.

It was a bourgeois Brexit because Brexit / Leave was a bourgeois project from the word go. I know there have always been left-wing opponents of EU membership but my point is that's not ''Brexit''. ''Brexit'' is something else, and the working class are sure as fuck not in control of it, nor were we ever meant to be by the people who are. I say guillotine the fuckers, but I appreciate I'm in a minority there.

Also, that Remain was a bourgeois reaction to a bourgeois phenomenon shouldn't be any surprise - but let's not forget Remain was a reaction. The agent of change was Leave, and that project was run by certain people, for certain reasons. And we know who and what they were. We hitched a ride on their bandwagon, at best. At what point do we jump off?

 

[Supine]

Well no it won’t because as I understand there will be two leave options and one remain- so it will go remain.

What you understand isn't agreed yet. Two choices is far more likely.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Great input

I missed that one and as a female sort of faggot i rule it’s proably better than half the stuff on here

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

What you understand isn't agreed yet. Two choices is far more likely.

Given there doesn’t seem to be a precedent for this could you show me yer workings?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

What you understand isn't agreed yet. Two choices is far more likely.

To clarify I’m not sure a second ref is likely either.

 

[Duncan2]

Well no it won’t because as I understand there will be two leave options and one remain- so it will go remain.

Put like that it somehow doesn't quite seem fair?I suppose another possibility could be months of arguing about what should be on the ballot-except of course that we don't have that many months left of membership.

 

[Winot]

Put like that it somehow doesn't quite seem fair?I suppose another possibility could be months of arguing about what should be on the ballot-except of course that we don't have that many months left of membership.

It’s pretty much accepted I think that there isn’t time to have a 2nd ref before 29/3/19. It requires an extension to Art. 50 to happen.

 

[mojo pixy]

A second referendum will be like, when you've cunted everyone off and basically made a pig of yourself, and you storm out with a shred of dignity, but then you realise what you forgot to say and march back in to a proper shitshow.

We should have just flipped a coin.

 

[Duncan2]

Again, as opposed to the happy cakewalk that is a Brexit of some form?

Perfectly willing to accept that a crash-out no deal would in many ways be a national disaster-but on the other hand its difficult to argue that that is not what people voted for.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

It was a bourgeois Brexit because Brexit / Leave was a bourgeois project from the word go. I know there have always been left-wing opponents of EU membership but my point is that's not ''Brexit''. ''Brexit'' is something else, and the working class are sure as fuck not in control of it, nor were we ever meant to be by the people who are. I say guillotine the fuckers, but I appreciate I'm in a minority there.

Also, that Remain was a bourgeois reaction to a bourgeois phenomenon shouldn't be any surprise - but let's not forget Remain was a reaction. The agent of change was Leave, and that project was run by certain people, for certain reasons. And we know who and what they were. We hitched a ride on their bandwagon, at best. At what point do we jump off?

I’m not sure what you are driving at. I could have easily abstained for this ref, but to me at this point in time it’s more important for pro working class types to concentrate their efforts on anything and everything *unrelated* to whether or not there is a people’s vote. Because we will need to do this anyway, remaining will not save us.
If by “jumping off” you mean campaigning to reverse the vote then there is no fucking way you can do that and maintain a pro working class position because you are basically saying that only certain people should expect their vote to count, and everyone else can get to fuck.
And for what? To remain part of an institution that actually BUILT A WALL to keep Europe white? To maintain all those laws and directives that mandate austerity and privatisation whether it’s red Tories or Tory Tories in power here? Waiting forever for a single social democrat to rise up and dismantle the fucktons of treaties that ensure a Socialist Government is by *it’s very nature* breaking the law? But never fear proles, the state kicked you in the face when it was the 4th largest economy in the world but if you do right by them just this once, you will be ok? Even if they did listen, what exactly would you have achieved?
However you voted, fixation on a second ref = either capitalism or capitalism plus a new precedent where neoliberals just get to ask people again when they don’t like the result. I know ideally a ref on the final deal would be a good thing but that’s not what this vote is about. And this week we’ve seen the likes
Of COSLA actually saying “we support a #peoplesvote to remain.” No kidding, twitter search it.
Cheers, I hope I’ve at least been as entertaining as a drunk Eric Joyce.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

PS: ok the COSLA vote write up wasn’t verbatim but only by a tiny baw hair

 

[Supine]

but on the other hand its difficult to argue that that is not what people voted for.

Brexiteers seem to have voted for a wide variety of reasons. Including:

1 sovereignty
2 fishing rights improvementd for fishermen
3 racism
4 avoidance of new EU tax regulations
5 disaster capitalists
6 career politicians
7 lexiting
8 anti immigration

Lots of those were single issue voters who didn't want or expect a total crash out.

 

[Duncan2]

After forty years of membership voting to leave was always going to be a leap in the dark.Nobody knew then what the full implications would turn out to be-we don't even know that now with any degree of certainty.

 

[Yossarian]

We should have just flipped a coin.

The leave side would still be arguing about who would get to flip the coin, where the ceremonial flipping would take place, and whether or not it was allowable to use Nigel Farage's lucky sixpence.

 

[mojo pixy]

If by “jumping off” you mean campaigning to reverse the vote then there is no fucking way you can do that and maintain a pro working class position because you are basically saying that only certain people should expect their vote to count, and everyone else can get to fuck.

That's not what I mean.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

That's not what I mean.

What do you mean?

 

[two sheds]

Not sure what the second referendum question would be.

1. Accept May's effort
2. ?
3?. ?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Not sure what the second referendum question would be.

1. Accept May's effort
2. ?
3. ??

Basically I’m not entirely sure a second ref fits into EU rules right now but the campaigners are saying:
1:deal
2:no deal
3:remain

Is it even possible to remain? I was doing a lot of reading prior to the ref but right now I’m doing full time nights and my spare time is all about the boy so this is a genuine question, is remain even an option at this point? Thanks in advance!

 

[two sheds]

Remain is about 50% so would presumably win given those three choices. Don't know whether it's an option though.

Remain now after all the shit that's gone on would seem worst of all worlds.

 

[Celyn]

Food loan sharks

I supposed most loan sharking involved people's need for food.