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Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Will we have a brexit?

  • Yes - A fully independant Britain making its own way in the world (apart from scotland).

    Votes: 66 18.2%

  • A Semi-Detached Norway type deal

    Votes: 111 30.7%

  • No - 2nd referendum and/or face saving fudge to let us slink back in feeling a bit fucking stupid

    Votes: 185 51.1%
  • Total voters
    362
pocketscience said:
Enders can do one. He's been divesting Airbus work away from Europe since he took over. Final Assembly Lines to Alabama and Tianjing, Composite centers in China, Engineering work to India & China, outsourcing the A320 wing production work done in Broughton to South Korea... Not a single job created in Europe just an organic reduction strategy during his tenure.
Well Tom, the situation for Airbus Employees and the multitude of sub-contractors is also hard to bear!

Ex member of Bavaria's center right CSU party. Bilderburg regular.
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OK...so this guy specializes in giving Euro jobs to non-Euro countries and you're telling him to fuck off, aye?

btw India just ditched 1000 Jaguar jobs in the UK.
 
DexterTCN said:
OK...so this guy specializes in giving Euro jobs to non-Euro countries and you're telling him to fuck off, aye?
Click to expand...
He specialises in maximising profits for shareholders. Lost "Euro jobs" are the collateral damage.
So yes, I am.
DexterTCN said:
btw India just ditched 1000 Jaguar jobs in the UK.
Click to expand...
They can fuck off as well as far as I'm concerned
(Diesel cars not selling after massive scandals and increased regulations shocker - but lets try and blame it on brexit)
 
pocketscience said:
He specialises in maximising profits for shareholders. Lost "Euro jobs" are the collateral damage.
So yes, I am...
Click to expand...
um...but you're not going to be in Europe...and he gives Euro jobs to non Euros. So you're telling someone who can give you jobs to fuck off?
 
DexterTCN said:
um...but you're not going to be in Europe...and he gives Euro jobs to non Euros. So you're telling someone who can give you jobs to fuck off?
Click to expand...
Yes. In his tenure the amount of positions at Airbus have decreased while the rate of production has increased (for example the A320 family deliveries per year have doubled since 2005). The extra work for delivering twice as many aircraft is done by low paid, shit contract workers in china and a southern US right-to-work state where unions are basically prohibited.
 
pocketscience said:
Yes. In his tenure the amount of positions at Airbus have decreased while the rate of production has increased (for example the A320 family deliveries per year have doubled since 2005). The extra work for delivering twice as many aircraft is done by low paid, shit contract workers in china and a southern US right-to-work state where unions are basically prohibited.
Click to expand...
You understand there is a finite amount of work, yeah?

You know what that means...in real terms.

A finite amount of work.
 
pocketscience said:
Enders can do one. He's been divesting Airbus work away from Europe since he took over. Final Assembly Lines to Alabama and Tianjing, Composite centers in China, Engineering work to India & China, outsourcing the A320 wing production work done in Broughton to South Korea... Not a single job created in Europe just an organic reduction strategy during his tenure.
Well Tom, the situation for Airbus Employees and the multitude of sub-contractors is also hard to bear!

Ex member of Bavaria's center right CSU party. Bilderburg regular.
Click to expand...
Airbus needs, in particular, American production facilities with American jobs in play to deal with American protectionism, which in turn is (amongst other things) a major barrier to sales. Hardly surprising then that they've set up in Alabama. In theory it has rewards for its European staff through competitiveness and scale, and is a better version of BAES' American strategy which was to try and fuck off over there entirely.

I can't comment on the rest of it as I haven't followed the industry so much of late.
 
mauvais said:
Airbus needs, in particular, American production facilities with American jobs in play to deal with American protectionism, which in turn is (amongst other things) a major barrier to sales. Hardly surprising then that they've set up in Alabama. In theory it has rewards for its European staff through competitiveness and scale, and is a better version of BAES' American strategy which was to try and fuck off over there entirely.

I can't comment on the rest of it as I haven't followed the industry so much of late.
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The reason given at the time was to hedge the Euro/ Dollar fluctuation. Now the Alabama FAL is up and running it's being used as leverage against the unions across Europe (yes, that includes the UK dexter) in the latest contract negotiations.
Look how Filton went. First sold off to GKN, now GKN is being fucked over while the work is being primed for Asia. Airbus never had to sell it in the first place.
Give it another 15 years and airbus will just be a bunch of suits in Toulouse running various remote outsourced production lines full of the cheapest zero hours contractors.
To think it was once a flag ship of european unity. The closest thing you'd get to an EUropean nationalised industry. Days long gone.
 
pocketscience said:
The reason given at the time was to hedge the Euro/ Dollar fluctuation. Now the Alabama FAL is up and running it's being used as leverage against the unions across Europe (yes, that includes the UK dexter) in the latest contract negotiations.
Look how Filton went. First sold off to GKN, now GKN is being fucked over while the work is being primed for Asia. Airbus never had to sell it in the first place.
Give it another 15 years and airbus will just be a bunch of suits in Toulouse running various remote outsourced production lines full of the cheapest zero hours contractors.
To think it was once a flag ship of european unity. The closest thing you'd get to an EUropean nationalised industry. Days long gone.
Click to expand...
Personally I doubt it, and I think you misdescribe some of this stuff, although at this rate the mainstream British aerospace industry will be toast in about that time, independently of what happens to Airbus. Not necessarily Brexit per se but because the government lacks the various qualities - and now the priorities - necessary to protect it. I think elsewhere in Europe the situation is far brighter, but no guarantees.
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
Is money the main thing in life for you?
Click to expand...
I talk about work...you see it as talk about money.

You're a twat obviously but both points are relevant. They are intertwined. Where will they come from?

Of the many issues involved in brexit I think maybe those who profess to speak for the working class start to tell everyone about how the working class continues to work.
 
DexterTCN said:
I talk about work...you see it as talk about money.

You're a twat obviously but both points are relevant. They are intertwined. Where will they come from?

Of the many issues involved in brexit I think maybe those who profess to speak for the working class start to tell everyone about how the working class continues to work.
Click to expand...
Maybe you could help us. Explain it in real terms, like.
Does it mean working at the same rates and in the same conditions as the chinese?
 
The Chinese are better at what you will bring to the table, yes. Would you like to see the stats? Let's agree not to bother.

It's not you v the chinese, you v europe, you v the world...it's perfectly reasonable to ask what you bring to the table when you want to go it alone.

A parent would ask a teenager having a tantrum what they're going to live on, wouldn't they? (and could see terrible things)

The easiest way to answer is just to answer...what are you bringing to the global table that people will want/buy/trade/gamble/invest? Cause it's not the fucking workers as they currently are...the workers get fucking fucked in that scenario.
 
mauvais said:
Personally I doubt it, and I think you misdescribe some of this stuff, although at this rate the mainstream British aerospace industry will be toast in about that time, independently of what happens to Airbus. Not necessarily Brexit per se but because the government lacks the various qualities - and now the priorities - necessary to protect it. I think elsewhere in Europe the situation is far brighter, but no guarantees.
Click to expand...
What do you think is misdescribed?
(Considering I'm calling bullshit on Enders' claim that brexit may cause a risk of double cerification for UK parts, when in fact he's been responsible for extending the Airbus supply chain way beyond the contries that host either the EASA or FAA.)
 
DexterTCN said:
The Chinese are better at what you will bring to the table, yes. Would you like to see the stats? Let's agree not to bother.

It's not you v the chinese, you v europe, you v the world...it's perfectly reasonable to ask what you bring to the table when you want to go it alone.

A parent would ask a teenager having a tantrum what they're going to live on, wouldn't they? (and could see terrible things)

The easiest way to answer is just to answer...what are you bringing to the global table that people will want/buy/trade/gamble/invest? Cause it's not the fucking workers as they currently are...the workers get fucking fucked in that scenario.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's why they don't even make their own Aero Engines for the Comac C919.
Now let me think, who exports Aero Engines?
 
Last edited:
Plenty of jobs in the UK were being outsourced to countries with poorer conditions and worse wages, like China, before the Brexit vote happened. If you say otherwise then you don't understand how capitalism works.
 
pocketscience said:
What do you think is misdescribed?
(Considering I'm calling bullshit on Enders' claim that brexit may cause a risk of double cerification for UK parts, when in fact he's been responsible for extending the Airbus supply chain way beyond the contries that host either the EASA or FAA.)
Click to expand...
It came off as looking like FALs had been moved to US & China whereas they are additional sites although perhaps redistributive in terms of capacity.

Airbus has or would have serious problems on a few counts - the A380 being the most obvious, but also things like the US tanker saga, Trump and his tariffs, etc etc, so it's not exactly like all this takes place against the happiest of backgrounds.

I agree that the certification issue is mostly political bollocks.
 
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