Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Raheem]

So ignoring subsidies for the moment - if the Uk decided on a zero tariff default set, then the onus would be on the EU to decide if they wanted to reciprocate that. By their own principle of "it's the UKs decision to leave, so the UK needs to propose the solution to the EU<>UK Border issue, as it's responsible for potentially jeopardising the GFA" , then by the same token, it would be the EUs decision to enforce tariffs that require a hard boarder, therefore the onus should be on the EU to find a solution that quells any nationalist anxiety.

I think the part that you're not taking into account is that neither the UK nor the EU can set zero tariffs in relation to one another (without a trade agreement) without doing the same in relation to the rest of the world, which would be economic suicide in either case.

 

[pocketscience]

I think the part that you're not taking into account is that neither the UK nor the EU can set zero tariffs in relation to one another (without a trade agreement) without doing the same in relation to the rest of the world.

Sorry, then i misunderstood the point in your previous post;

You can only have one default set of tariffs under WTO rules. They can be as low as you like,

but without a post-Brexit trade agreement, we can't give preferential treatment to the EU. Plus we'd need to find an awful lot of money to subsidise UK farmers and manufacturers so they could

How does preferential treatment come into it?

 

[stethoscope]

I'm happy for readers to make their own minds up, in the unlikely event that anyone else cares.

You're being dishonest and can't even offer any admission or concession for it even when called out. HTH

 

[redsquirrel]

I've already dealt with the point regarding voting alliances. What kind of purist deluded world are you living in? In your second sentence here you don't seem to like the word "reskilling". What is wrong with it do you think that once somebody starts working in one job there should just be smooth transition in their career and that people should never have to even consider retraining. Aren't you being a bit unrealistic here? When I mentioned the phrase "welfare underclass" I was just mentioning it as a potential danger/argument against creating a generous welfare state perhaps involving a BIS and one that shouldn't prevent the funding of a proper welfare system. You don't seem to have your brain switched on. You just here a phrase that you might have heard spoken by a politician that you didn't like and think that anybody who uses that phrases ever again is making the same argument made by those politicians. Don't just act so viscerally, flip out, vomit and shut down. That is what I mean by you not having your brain switched on.

Oh, I guess I just I'm just another purist unreasonable leave voter. If only we had our brains switched on like you, willing to make deals with the filth that have increased inequality back to Victorian levels, who have made the poor poorer and the rich richer, who have seen decades of politics that lead to inequality, poverty and early deaths.

I specifically said don't ignore the concerns of those who voted Leave, but I still believe that the EU Ref was for many reasons a deeply flawed vote (many others here agree with me on this). I do believe the Leave vote is against the interests of those who want social justice/socialism/whatever in this country. I have called left wingers who supported a Leave vote misguided. That doesn't mean that I'm a bad person or a patronising git.

You might have said those "concerns" should be listened to but there's no more meaning to that statement than the words of May, Trump, Cameron or Blair. You've specifically said that the British government should ignore the way they voted and remain in the EU. Your listening to concerns is nothing but a patronising statement while continuing with the same politics that have caused so much social damage for the last 30 years.

You didn't call people who vote leave misguided (I linked to the posts FFS) you called them fools and anti-socialist. You've said that they are making common cause with the Tories/UKIP. I'd say that was pretty patronising.

 

[Pickman's model]

You, sir, are a rude man.
You have no class.

Everybody has class. You're just ignorant.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Sorry, then i misunderstood the point in your previous post;


How does preferential treatment come into it?

Because you are giving the eu zero tariffs but every other country has to pay x.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know exactly what I said you dip. I was commenting on you quoting me that's why I put a "-" after the word "party" Just the same as i put a dash after the word "threat" those were two comments on things that YOU said. My comment on the UKIP comment was that you were deliberately nit picking on a minor point to hide your lack of argument on the substantive point which was to do with the unsavoury political alliances that the Left wing leave advocates have made. I could have made it clearer by putting both of the two things I was commenting on in quotes instead I just put a dash after the two things I was commenting on.

Yeh. So you claim that you mean what you say. Good. So you'll be able to back up this political alliance bit, which you'll be able to say when and where and by who it was made. If it ever existed of course.

 

[stethoscope]

...
the substantive point which was to do with the unsavoury political alliances that the Left wing leave advocates have made.

Left leavers haven't made any 'unsavoury political alliances', we've been pretty much out there on our own advocating and arguing this from pro-socialist/working class positions, whilst attacking the right but also continually being smeered by a more powerful liberal remain machine which actually has made overt and public alliances with the right - which even you lent support too only a few pages ago of this thread!

 

[Pickman's model]

Thank you teuchter that is exactly what I thought Pickman's model is being dishonest and is on a wind up.

Yeh. Link to that post where you demolished the arguments pls, second time of asking, if it exists now would be the time to link to it. You dishonest and underhand abomination.

 

[Pickman's model]

Left leavers haven't made any 'unsavoury political alliances', we've been pretty much out there on our own advocating and arguing this from pro-socialist/working class positions, whilst attacking the right but also continually being smeered by a more powerful liberal remain machine which actually has made overt and public alliances with the right - which even you lent support too only a few pages ago of this thread!

Yeh. Is honesty a foreign concept to toblerone3?

 

[Badgers]

I have changed my position since reading this

 

[Badgers]

Can't believe I ever thought we should remain.

 

[pocketscience]

Because you are giving the eu zero tariffs but every other country has to pay x.

And when every other country doesn't have to pay x?

 

[andysays]

There's no room for 'revision'...

You seem to know all there is to know about the GFA, so maybe you can point to the specific clause which states this categorically.

...If one side reneges on an agreement that has kept peace for decades, then yes they are at fault. And worse.

I'm not talking about anyone reneging on anything. There is absolutely no reason why the British and Irish governments can't come up with agreed revisions to the GFA and, although it may be difficult to get other groups who were part of the original GFA to agree, it's not impossible.

Or are you suggesting that there is still a general appetite for violence in NI, that all those who have experienced peace for nearly 20 years have actually just been waiting for an excuse to go back to bombing and shooting? That's a ridiculous claim, but that's the implication of what you're saying.

 

[JimW]

Especially since those actually interested in continued armed conflict have ignored the GFA anyway.

 

[Raheem]

You seem to know all there is to know about the GFA, so maybe you can point to the specific clause which states this categorically.

There is absolutely no reason why the British and Irish governments can't come up with agreed revisions to the GFA and, although it may be difficult to get other groups who were part of the original GFA to agree, it's not impossible.

But we're not talking about minor revision. There would be barely any point to a version of the GFA that incorporated a hard border, and what's the incentive for the Irish government to agree to it anyway?

 

[sleaterkinney]

And when every other country doesn't have to pay x?

So you're saying any country will be able to export to the UK, no restrictions?

 

[Pickman's model]

So toblerone3 no link. No post. No demolition. Same auld story, the liberal - that's you - tells lies, isn't believed, tells more lies and then buggers off. Don't ruin the happy ending.

 

[pocketscience]

So you're saying any country will be able to export to the UK, no restrictions?

No I'm not saying anything. Please don't go all teuchter on me and start putting words in my mouth?
I've asked you (and raheem) a couple genuine questions because you seem to have much more knowledge about wto rules vs trade agreements than me.

I just wanted to know if it's an unreasonable suggestion that a county could have no tariffs in place, in a globalised world?

(eta: anyway googled it now - Hong Kong & Singapore)

 

[sleaterkinney]

No I'm not saying anything. Please don't go all teuchter on me and start putting words in my mouth?
I've asked you (and raheem) a couple genuine questions because you seem to have much more knowledge about wto rules vs trade agreements than me.

I just wanted to know if it's an unreasonable suggestion that a county could have no tariffs in place, in a globalised world?

(eta: anyway googled it now - Hong Kong & Singapore)

We could have, but that would mean the country being open to goods from anywhere, cheap food, cheap goods etc, our own industries would be wiped out.

 

[pocketscience]

Hard to imagine that there's even cheaper shit out there than the all the crap we're flooded with already.

 

[Raheem]

Hard to imagine that there's even cheaper shit out there than the all the crap we're flooded with already.

Well, imagine that currently incorporated into the prices are import tariffs.

 

[Raheem]

I have changed my position since reading this

I'm going to assume you mean because it gave you a hardon and you were in polite company.

 

[Badgers]

 

[Badgers]

Dutch paper

 

[teuchter]

View attachment 129245 View attachment 129246

This post a magnet for likes from sneery middle class types

 

[Badgers]

This post a magnet for likes from sneery middle class types

Thought you would like it

 

[paolo]

Does anyone know what’s going on?

The Brexit DUP say there has to be hard border. *

That won’t fly. No matter how hard the Brexit say.

* DUP / “it can all be worked out”: Run this.

 

[philosophical]

Sorry, late to this thread and my first post.
Am I right is assuming that everybody who voted brexit is an ignorant racist self serving nationalist brainwashed tosser?
Is there anybody at all, in the universe, who can persuade me that there is anything good about brexit?
Just to make it easy, start with the day to day practical solutions to the land border on the island of Ireland. We are told brexit voters knew what they were doing, so if there is a brexit voter reading this, tell me your plan for the border that you knew about before voting in the referendum.
I am 65, the son of a bus cleaner and a waitress in a cafe, who went into care at an early age and have worked all my life. Despite apparently being of the demographic who is supposed to have voted brexit I can't believe that any sentient being with the capacity to think would have voted brexit.
I will personally hate and despise anybody I know who voted brexit until my dying day (which isn't far off), brexit won, it is your country now and I hold brexit voters in utter contempt.

 

[stethoscope]

Sorry, late to this thread and my first post.
Am I right is assuming that everybody who voted brexit is an ignorant racist self serving nationalist brainwashed tosser?
Is there anybody at all, in the universe, who can persuade me that there is anything good about brexit?
Just to make it easy, start with the day to day practical solutions to the land border on the island of Ireland. We are told brexit voters knew what they were doing, so if there is a brexit voter reading this, tell me your plan for the border that you knew about before voting in the referendum.

Off you fuck then.