Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Corax]

Whats driving this swing to the right ?

Fear of the other, and misplaced anger at macro-economics and the actions of their sovereign government.

 

[butchersapron]

They really believe this shit you know.

 

[Corax]

Thus would be the rightwards drift that started what four years ago? The eu ain't going to do shit.

No,but they'll hold in their hand a piece of paper in a threatening manner.

 

[gosub]

Nope.

But...even if it were true it would be explained by one of two things:-

as mentioned before the pound has dropped in value...increased sales (and thus tax) is not an increase in productivity it's working and selling harder just to stay in the same place

or

fire sale (having this anyway btw...foreign producers will raise output so they can finish contracts, use up stocks and then leave or threaten to leave in order to get a better deal, the majority of contracts will be void at brexit...consider that)

There is nothing, absolutely nothing to indicate, imply or infer that the UK will be in anything other than a much worse financial position after brexit.

All you had to do was stick to with the shit you actually deal with. Receipts ARE up . Leave the the rest of it to us that actually do it.

 

[Corax]

Thing is Brexit is not going to mean we kick out anyone who's from Eastern Europe, or stop absolutely anyone new from coming. So slaughtering, building etc are not going to automatically grind to a halt, although pay for jobs typically done by EU citizens will probably have to go up in a lot of cases.

Maybe so, but there's already plenty of anecdotal reports of people from EU states upping sticks and going home because they feel that post-Brexit Britain is an unwelcoming place.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Thing is Brexit is not going to mean we kick out anyone who's from Eastern Europe, or stop absolutely anyone new from coming.

Do you know anyone from Eastern Europe who lives here? You may not be concerned but many of those who live here and would like to continue living here are.

 

[Corax]

Were they? Check your memory.

4Gb currently. Spare slots, so going to upgrade it.

 

[Raheem]

Maybe so, but there's already plenty of anecdotal reports of people from EU states upping sticks and going home because they feel that post-Brexit Britain is an unwelcoming place.

Which is one of the reasons they will need to be paid more in future if we need them to stay.

 

[Raheem]

Do you know anyone from Eastern Europe who lives here? You may not be concerned...

Yes, and where did I say I wasn't concerned?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Do you know anyone from Eastern Europe who lives here? You may not be concerned but many of those who live here and would like to continue living here are.

all the more reason to stress how unlikely it is they are all going to be deported en masse, no?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

One clear one is the swing to the right in member states. The EU has already threatened Hungary (I think - might have the country wrong) with withdrawing voting rights, or even funding, should they continue their rightwards lurch. As a major power within the EU we had the power to influence such actions. Now, we don't.

Funny how our trusty anti fascist comrades seem to be deal with a lurch to the left rather swiftly indeed. What's going on?

misplaced anger at macro-economics and the actions of their sovereign government.

Maybe it's the time of night but I can no longer assume these arguments are made in good faith. ETA... Girlfriend!

 

[redsquirrel]

Not 'fake' exactly, but it turns out it's a parody account. Sadly.

There's plenty of genuine ones in a similar vein though.

This is exactly why Remain lost.

 

[kabbes]

I'll facetiously direct you towards Farage's twitter account.

Farage does things like think Yorkshire tea is grown in Yorkshire?

You believed that twitter account was genuine because you think there are people out there angrily reacting to stuff like finding out tea isn’t grown in Yorkshire. You thought that was credible, and underlined this belief by saying, “there’s plenty of genuine ones like that”. Don’t you see why this kind of caricature is unhelpful? Ironically, it’s just as twisted as the views you are imputing onto the people you don’t agree with.

 

[kabbes]

Fear of the other, and misplaced anger at macro-economics and the actions of their sovereign government.

Why is their anger at macroeconomics (or, more specifically, the policies pursued in the name of it) and anger at the actions of their government misplaced? Has their well-being improved? Have they shared in the prosperity of their nation?

 

[bimble]

I’m alright Jack.

The correct analogy is “I have lung cancer, I’ll swap it for pancreatic cancer if it causes grief for the cunts who gave me cancer in the first place.”

How many of the people who voted leave do you reckon did so for this reason (it can't get worse for me so I want you bastards to suffer too) - basically out of spite / nihilism and not for the reasons they mostly said like controlling immigration less power to unelected beaurocrats etc?

 

[The39thStep]

Thing is Brexit is not going to mean we kick out anyone who's from Eastern Europe, or stop absolutely anyone new from coming. So slaughtering, building etc are not going to automatically grind to a halt, although pay for jobs typically done by EU citizens will probably have to go up in a lot of cases.

Absolutley , over supply of labour = low/minimum wage. Theres already reports of construction wages rising.

 

[The39thStep]

Maybe so, but there's already plenty of anecdotal reports of people from EU states upping sticks and going home because they feel that post-Brexit Britain is an unwelcoming place.

The fact , rather than anecdote, is that the Polish economy is growing , it lost a million workers due labour migration and estimates it needs to attract five million more .The govt has campaigned for Polish labour to return and for many its attractive because after being exploited here in low wage/high hour jobs they will have a better standard of living.There are labour shortages in Czech republic and Romania causing wages to rise hence the return.

 

[J Ed]

Not 'fake' exactly, but it turns out it's a parody account. Sadly.

There's plenty of genuine ones in a similar vein though.

Interesting how fabricated tweets can serve the dual function of either being evidence of something outright and/or being true anyway because even if it isn't true it is basically true as we know that they are like that.

 

[The39thStep]

Lots of it is either subtle power, or so patently obvious that I'm sure you don't actually need the likes of me to explain it to you.

One clear one is the swing to the right in member states. The EU has already threatened Hungary (I think - might have the country wrong) with withdrawing voting rights, or even funding, should they continue their rightwards lurch. As a major power within the EU we had the power to influence such actions. Now, we don't.

Well if the role of the EU is to dictate to its members which sort of political parties they can elect its got quite a job on its hands.Just to be clear on the scale of swing to the right within EU states , Poland and Hungary have right wing governments,in Romania , Sweden, Norway Finland and Denmark right wing parties have breached the 20% mark and taken part in government, Le Pen got a third of the vote in France and in Germany and Holland they are the opposition.

 

[J Ed]

Well if the role of the EU is to dictate to its members which sort of political parties they can elect its got quite a job on its hands.Just to be clear on the scale of swing to the right within EU states , Poland and Hungary have right wing governments,in Romania , Sweden, Norway Finland and Denmark right wing parties have breached the 20% mark and taken part in government, Le Pen got a third of the vote in France and in Germany and Holland they are the opposition.

Rhetoric aside, the EU seems infinitely more hospitable to far-right governments than it does any government that threatens to break with neoliberalism.

 

[DexterTCN]

The UK also has a right wing government. The current PM was responsible a while back for messages going around telling immigrants to go home. Hate crimes have gone up noticeably and the media is out of control.


Does anyone think the UK will move to the left after brexit?

 

[J Ed]

Does anyone think the UK will move to the left after brexit?

It already has.

 

[The39thStep]

The UK also has a right wing government. The current PM was responsible a while back for messages going around telling immigrants to go home. Hate crimes have gone up noticeably and the media is out of control.
View attachment 127127

Does anyone think the UK will move to the left after brexit?

Hasn't the Mirror just bought the Express?

 

[mojo pixy]

How many of the people who voted leave do you reckon did so for this reason (it can't get worse for me so I want you bastards to suffer too) - basically out of spite / nihilism and not for the reasons they mostly said like controlling immigration less power to unelected beaurocrats etc?

That's the real bitter pill. Immigration won't fall, the proportion from the EU will (may, anyway. Anyone with the right amount of cash will still find the doors wide open wherever they migrate from). And as for unelected bureaucrats it's not as if we don't have those, and brexit isn't going to affect their power. They'll just be British unelected bureaucrats same as now. Vengeful nihilism has more validity.

 

[DexterTCN]

Hasn't the Mirror just bought the Express?

Yes. Do you think there will be an editorial shift?

 

[Raheem]

Absolutley , over supply of labour = low/minimum wage. Theres already reports of construction wages rising.

Sure, but it's important to note that we're talking about specific, skilled jobs where Brexit causes a reduction in supply of labour. Most people are not going to get a real terms Brexit pay rise. That would only happen with a marked increase in the level of employment.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

How many of the people who voted leave do you reckon did so for this reason (it can't get worse for me so I want you bastards to suffer too) - basically out of spite / nihilism and not for the reasons they mostly said like controlling immigration less power to unelected beaurocrats etc?

One million, seven hundred and twenty three thousand, six hundred and nine.




Read the quote I was replying to for context.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Well if the role of the EU is to dictate to its members which sort of political parties they can elect its got quite a job on its hands.Just to be clear on the scale of swing to the right within EU states , Poland and Hungary have right wing governments,in Romania , Sweden, Norway Finland and Denmark right wing parties have breached the 20% mark and taken part in government, Le Pen got a third of the vote in France and in Germany and Holland they are the opposition.

And that’s without even mentioning Adolf Hitler’s home nation...

 

[J Ed]

The UK also has a right wing government. The current PM was responsible a while back for messages going around telling immigrants to go home. Hate crimes have gone up noticeably and the media is out of control.
View attachment 127127

Does anyone think the UK will move to the left after brexit?

It was good when before the EU referendum, the Express, newspaper in an EU member state, wasn't a far-right tabloid.

 

[The39thStep]

Sure, but it's important to note that we're talking about specific, skilled jobs where Brexit causes a reduction in supply of labour. Most people are not going to get a real terms Brexit pay rise. That would only happen with a marked increase in the level of employment.

Not disagreeing but will make two comments 1) it's already happening not because of Brexit but because of the buoyant East European economies attracting labour back and 2) Fruit and veg picker wages are rising .