Is America burning? (Black Lives Matter protests, civil unrest and riots 2020)

[Ax^]

Ok boomer.

what are in your forties defending the position of a politician in his 70's
who main voters are over 55

 

[cupid_stunt]

Between echo-chamber social media, moral panics, populism and a seemingly implacable self-worship and 'hang everyone else' attitude; the USA seems to be losing its capacity for down to earth common sense. I read about so many great people doing so many good things over there and it's hard to marry the two. What is the cause of this conniving, scheming and brutal inhumanity? It is the super rich that are utilising division: 'culture war', racism and reactionary politics. They build up these forces and legitimise them, amplify them. It's not hopeless, but it seems to be going in the wrong direction.

One word - Trump.

 

[Humberto]

One word - Trump.

Fair comment - but he isn't the only one driving it. It's as much a class and systemic problem.

 

[Ax^]

Fair comment - but he isn't the only one driving it. It's as much a class and systemic problem.

it not just Trump he would not of been elected if this problem were not systemic problems in the US for the last 100 years or more
even the white flight in the 60,70 & 80s in most united state cities feed the problems

the people being served by the police forces commiting most of these crimes are not in leaf suburbs
and so people not living in city centres ,don't see it as their problem

 

[Streathamite]

Yeah, but still, the Lincoln project, though...

All the better that it's them, if it means the base, not just of Trump, but of the right full stop, is crumbling before us.

 

[editor]

Ok boomer.

And off this thread you go.

 

[NoXion]

And off this thread you go.

I'm not the only one who would appreciate it if you fucked him off the boards entirely. He constantly attempts to disrupt threads, as evidenced by the bans from them he keeps receiving. He is a bona fide troll.

 

[existentialist]

I'm not the only one who would appreciate it if you fucked him off the boards entirely. He constantly attempts to disrupt threads, as evidenced by the bans from them he keeps receiving. He is a bona fide troll.

We're probably not getting anywhere trying to gainsay editor on this. He may be privy to facts he's not in a position to share, but which might be influential in any decisions made.

Meanwhile, the best we can do is to continue to challenge his slurs, sleights, and subterfuges, and not give him an inch of slack.

 

[editor]

We're probably not getting anywhere trying to gainsay editor on this. He may be privy to facts he's not in a position to share, but which might be influential in any decisions made.

Meanwhile, the best we can do is to continue to challenge his slurs, sleights, and subterfuges, and not give him an inch of slack.

That is always the correct way to go about it. None of the mods react favourably to individuals demanding we take action in the middle of threads, and bear in mind his banning is not my decision to make alone. But I'm clearly not insensitive to the disruption he's causing. If anyone wants to discuss this further, please take it to to the feedback forum because I'm not going to let this thread be derailed any further.

 

[Streathamite]

That is always the correct way to go about it. None of the mods react favourably to individuals demanding we take action in the middle of threads, and bear in mind his banning is not my decision to make alone. But I'm clearly not insensitive to the disruption he's causing. If anyone wants to discuss this further, please take it to to the feedback forum because I'm not going to let this thread be derailed any further.

Thank you for your actions here.
I need to think about this situation, and need time to do so, but I will probably come up with a question or two on this one, in the feedback forum, which as you say is the right place to put such questions.

 

[dylanredefined]

They used to, until run outa town a couple of years ago, & have never returned.

Oh good as much as some might enjoy heckling them probably ruins more peoples day

 

[Dogsauce]

All this pearl-clutching by ‘moderates’ about graffiti on walls in Portland, have these knobs never seen what many US neighbourhoods look like, places like Flint where it appears like a hurricane has been through, neighbourhoods in ruins. This devastation has been at the hands of capitalism/globalism but is somehow overlooked, doesn’t have the necessary drama of rioting crowds, but the outcomes are much much worse. Lives and livelihoods devastated. Save your fucking tears from police precincts and low-paying chain stores. Christ.

 

[Pickman's model]

what are in your forties defending the position of a politician in his 70's
who main voters are over 55

It's wicked to mock the afflicted

 

[likesfish]

They used to, until run outa town a couple of years ago, & have never returned.

Apprantly the pie and mash squad regularly return "covertly" one of their leaders told me in jail. Not exactly how anyone would spot or care about a few more tourists.?

 

[Shechemite]

All the better that it's them, if it means the base, not just of Trump, but of the right full stop, is crumbling before us.

yep. I think it will take the Republicans a long time make themselves electable after all this

 

[8ball]

All the better that it's them, if it means the base, not just of Trump, but of the right full stop, is crumbling before us.

Though it would have been nice if the left hadn't already crumbled away.

 

[teqniq]

Massive crowds in Portland, lots more vids in the thread:

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Wall of Moms:

As a mom in Portland, Oregon, was watching the unrest unfolding in her city, she felt compelled to get involved and protect protesters.

For more than 50 days, protests over racial inequality and police misconduct have carried on in Portland. While many have been peaceful, those demonstrations have also been marked by violence, vandalism, arson, arrests and allegations of police brutality.

Friday night, Bev Barnum said she was watching videos on social media from the protest showing people being detained by federal agents.

“It didn’t take long for me to find a massive array of video displaying obvious human rights violations,” Barnum told CNN....

"But I thought I needed to do more so I asked the Portland working moms group to protest with me — to shield the protesters from harm with our ‘mombods,'” she said.

Barnum, founder of Wall of Moms, and about 70 other mothers converged onto the protest in downtown Portland, where protesters were gathered outside the federal courthouse. The women stood in the front of the protest line and locked arms to form a human shield. At times they were chanting “Moms are here! Feds stay clear!”

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/dozens-of-women-form-wall-of-moms-to-shield-protesters-from-federal-officers-in-portland/

Naturally, they assumed that the cops wouldn't harm a group of moms peacefully protesting. They got teargassed for their trouble. I saw the video of that, but can't seem to find it now. It was pretty brutal.

 

[Streathamite]

Actually - whisper it not quietly - but over the past few years there have been several promising, albeit tentative signs of a rebirth of, well, kinda perogressive politics.

Not just the two bernie runs for President - in itself, remarkable after 40 years of neoliberalism an actual self-proclaimed socialist could get so far that the only way they could stop him in 2016 was a stitch-up so brazen that it led to the chair of the DNC being booed of stage at the convention, and falling on her sword almost immediately after.
There's the fact that two of the fastest growing political organisations in America are the Justice democrats and the Democratic Socialists of America.
There's 'The Squad' - and loads of people are already touting AOC as future POTUS..
There's been a whole slew of Progressive victories in Democrat primaries, at both state and federal level.
There's the fact that Joe Biden has just effectively endorsed the Green New Deal as part of his platform, at least According to someone who knows quite a lot about that sort of thing
There's been a small but noticeable upsurge in TU militancy, albeit only in isolated pockets.
THere's ditto in environmental activism.
And - above all - there is this astonishing movement - centred on, based on, but not confined to BLM - which has simply exploded across the whole country, taking on an astonishing life and momentum of its own, in the two weeks since George Floyd's murder. In my book, all left wing militancy starts in the streets and the shopfloor - and we're seeing what could well be a whole new generation radicalising themselves. And it's got the Right rattled like nothing s9ince '68.

OK. To hardcore anarchist like those who post here - not to mention a diehard old trot like me - it may seem like small, weak beer. But everything has to start somewhere, and after 40 years of neoliberalism, militarism, neocon triumphalism and gutless Democrat triangulation, it's a bloody huge change.

 

[Streathamite]

Wall of Moms:

View attachment 223139

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/dozens-of-women-form-wall-of-moms-to-shield-protesters-from-federal-officers-in-portland/

Naturally, they assumed that the cops wouldn't harm a group of moms peacefully protesting. They got teargassed for their trouble. I saw the video of that, but can't seem to find it now. It was pretty brutal.

Thanks v much for posting that, but unfortunately your link can't be accessed in Europe due to data law issues.. I don't suppose you have an alternative link?
That would be great - but don't put yourself to too much time/trouble just for it.

 

[Archimage]

My exGF sent me this of a BLM protest in Budapest, Hungary. I had forgotten Hungary was part of the Nazis.

 

[fishfinger]

Thanks v much for posting that, but unfortunately your link can't be accessed in Europe due to data law issues.. I don't suppose you have an alternative link?
That would be great - but don't put yourself to too much time/trouble just for it.

The full text:

As a mom in Portland, Oregon, was watching the unrest unfolding in her
city, she felt compelled to get involved and protect protesters.

For more than 50 days
<https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/20/us/portland-protests-fifty-days/index.html>,
protests over racial inequality and police misconduct have carried on in
Portland. While many have been peaceful, those demonstrations have also
been marked by violence, vandalism, arson, arrests and allegations of
police brutality.

Friday night, Bev Barnum said she was watching videos on social media
from the protest showing people being detained by federal agents.

“It didn’t take long for me to find a massive array of video displaying
obvious human rights violations,” Barnum told CNN.

The videos showed masked, camouflaged federal
<https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/18/us/portland-arrests-federal-authorities/index.html>authorities
without identification badges in unmarked vehicles arresting protesters
in Portland. These incidents have sparked the state’s US attorney to
call for an investigation into the matter.

Barnum said she told her husband she wanted to help and he suggested a
fundraiser.

“But I thought I needed to do more so I asked the Portland working moms
group to protest with me — to shield the protesters from harm with our
‘mombods,'” she said.

Barnum, founder of Wall of Moms, and about 70 other mothers converged
onto the protest in downtown Portland, where protesters were gathered
outside the federal courthouse. The women stood in the front of the
protest line and locked arms to form a human shield. At times they were
chanting “Moms are here! Feds stay clear!”

As protests have ramped up over the past few weeks, the Trump
administration has sent in federal agents from the Department of
Homeland Security to respond to the city. This has caused controversy
with elected officials as Oregon Gov. Kate Brown and Portland Mayor Ted
Wheeler have criticized the federal response.
<https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/19/us/portland-police-federal-authorities/index.html>


Joining forces

Barnum, who is Mexican American, teamed up with Don’t Shoot Portland
<https://www.dontshootpdx.org/about-us/>, a Black-led advocacy group
that has been fighting for social change in Portland since 2014. They
are currently demonstrating for justice in the July 10 shooting death of
teenager Shai’India Harris
<https://katu.com/news/local/crime-stoppers-officers-reward-to-help-solve-homicide-of-portland-teen>.


“We are just amplifying their message,” Rebecca, another mom that joined
Barnum, told CNN. “Parents have always been out there protesting. Black
mothers have been doing this forever trying to get justice for their
children.”

Rebecca, who didn’t want her last name printed out of fear of
retaliation, told CNN she has been joining in the peaceful marches for
five weeks now. The mother of five joined forces with Barnum to help
bring protection to protestors in downtown Portland.

“I became concerned for the young people getting teargassed and
flash-banged by police,” Rebecca said. “It’s like a war zone down there.”

The group of peaceful moms grew over each night as the word spread on
their social media groups. By Sunday night, around 200 women joined the
Wall of Moms movement, according to Barnum.


Teargassed by police

While they set out to keep the peace, Barnum said, they were at times
caught in the crossfire and were teargassed by police. Saturday night,
protesters started dismantling the fence around the courthouse, Barnum said.

“The Feds came out of the building, they walked slowly, assembled
themselves and started shooting,” she said. “I couldn’t believe it was
happening. Traumatic doesn’t even begin to describe it.”

This didn’t deter the Wall of Moms from gathering again Sunday. At 200
strong, Barnum said, she felt stronger with their numbers and hoped for
peace.

“We blocked the fence in hopes that the kids wouldn’t take it down and
the feds would stay in their building,” she said.

The peaceful night took a turn for the worse when the fence was toppled
and police used teargas to disperse the protesters.
<https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/19/us/portland-police-federal-authorities/index.html> Barnum
said their group on social media has more than 2,000 moms wanting to
participate and they aren’t stopping anytime soon.

“We’ll stop when there is no protester that needs our protection,” she
said. “We get thanks every which way. But we’re not doing it for the
thanks. We’re doing it to protect human rights.”

 

[Streathamite]

Thanks Fishfinger - much appreciated!

 

[krtek a houby]

Actually - whisper it not quietly - but over the past few years there have been several promising, albeit tentative signs of a rebirth of, well, kinda perogressive politics.

Not just the two bernie runs for President - in itself, remarkable after 40 years of neoliberalism an actual self-proclaimed socialist could get so far that the only way they could stop him in 2016 was a stitch-up so brazen that it led to the chair of the DNC being booed of stage at the convention, and falling on her sword almost immediately after.
There's the fact that two of the fastest growing political organisations in America are the Justice democrats and the Democratic Socialists of America.
There's 'The Squad' - and loads of people are already touting AOC as future POTUS..
There's been a whole slew of Progressive victories in Democrat primaries, at both state and federal level.
There's the fact that Joe Biden has just effectively endorsed the Green New Deal as part of his platform, at least According to someone who knows quite a lot about that sort of thing
There's been a small but noticeable upsurge in TU militancy, albeit only in isolated pockets.
THere's ditto in environmental activism.
And - above all - there is this astonishing movement - centred on, based on, but not confined to BLM - which has simply exploded across the whole country, taking on an astonishing life and momentum of its own, in the two weeks since George Floyd's murder. In my book, all left wing militancy starts in the streets and the shopfloor - and we're seeing what could well be a whole new generation radicalising themselves. And it's got the Right rattled like nothing s9ince '68.

OK. To hardcore anarchist like those who post here - not to mention a diehard old trot like me - it may seem like small, weak beer. But everything has to start somewhere, and after 40 years of neoliberalism, militarism, neocon triumphalism and gutless Democrat triangulation, it's a bloody huge change.

It's encouraging but at the same time, there's a lot of hostility towards the likes of Ilhan Omar, etc and no just from Trumpist filth.

If or when the Dems get in, what are the chances that the squad will be prominent in the new administration? Hope my pessimism is wrong, but currently feeling it will be business as usual.

 

[Nylock]

yep. I think it will take the Republicans a long time make themselves electable after all this

You underestimate the sheer venality and tribalism of voters in 'red' states and districts. The fact that despite how horrific the Trump admin is, he's still above 0% approval should give pause for thought. If he's replaced by someone "nicer", they have a better than even chance of returning to power post Biden. In fact I still wouldn't entirely rule Trump out for a narrow win come November...

 

[TomUS]

All this pearl-clutching by ‘moderates’ about graffiti on walls in Portland, have these knobs never seen what many US neighbourhoods look like, places like Flint where it appears like a hurricane has been through, neighbourhoods in ruins. This devastation has been at the hands of capitalism/globalism but is somehow overlooked, doesn’t have the necessary drama of rioting crowds, but the outcomes are much much worse. Lives and livelihoods devastated. Save your fucking tears from police precincts and low-paying chain stores. Christ.

Actually what has happened in downtown Portland is much worse than grafitti. It's shocking destruction done by a small minority and has/will cost thousands of jobs. I provided a video of downtown earlier. The uber liberal city and state politicians who allowed this to happen are guilty of gross negligence. And they have handed an issue to the Trump campaign. I saw a Trump ad with the words "De-fund The Police?" with video of windows being smashed by rioters.

 

[dylanredefined]

Apprantly the pie and mash squad regularly return "covertly" one of their leaders told me in jail. Not exactly how anyone would spot or care about a few more tourists.?

Even the cops think the pie and mah squad are pathetic. Think I know someone involved in it not sure if he is a fascist or just really likes pie and mash tbh.

 

[Shechemite]

You underestimate the sheer venality and tribalism of voters in 'red' states and districts. The fact that despite how horrific the Trump admin is, he's still above 0% approval should give pause for thought. If he's replaced by someone "nicer", they have a better than even chance of returning to power post Biden. In fact I still wouldn't entirely rule Trump out for a narrow win come November...

How much of trumps (possibly) lost support is from those to the right of him? Do you think he is only losing support from ‘nicer’ republican voters, or from those who see him as not being tough/racist enough?

 

[existentialist]

Actually what has happened in downtown Portland is much worse than grafitti. It's shocking destruction done by a small minority and has/will cost thousands of jobs. I provided a video of downtown earlier. The uber liberal city and state politicians who allowed this to happen are guilty of gross negligence. And they have handed an issue to the Trump campaign. I saw a Trump ad with the words "De-fund The Police?" with video of windows being smashed by rioters.

So it was too much bother to respond to my points about this, but not too much trouble to just trot out the same tired, unthinking pabulum all over again?

Shame.

 

[kabbes]

Actually what has happened in downtown Portland is much worse than grafitti. It's shocking destruction done by a small minority and has/will cost thousands of jobs. I provided a video of downtown earlier. The uber liberal city and state politicians who allowed this to happen are guilty of gross negligence. And they have handed an issue to the Trump campaign. I saw a Trump ad with the words "De-fund The Police?" with video of windows being smashed by rioters.

I took a look at your video. It’s a bunch of boards with graffiti (largely on the boards). There’s basically nothing in that video that is “shocking destruction”.
And then I focused on the targets. It’s really stark that the protesters have indeed gone after the representations of power (the courts and so on) and faceless exploitation (the shopping mall, which is full of massive chain stores). It actually bears out what I was saying — there is real anger and the targets represent a legitimate repository of that anger. You’re not seeing local neighbourhood shops in that video, or people’s homes or real infrastructure.