Is a 'reasonable' amount of time off you should be allowed off for medical/compassionate reasons?

[Pickman's model]

I think the thing to do in your situation is get them on side as opposed to antagonising them, and so a meeting would be a good idea. It also serves as a written record of what was agreed. I'm assuming you make the time up for appointments in working hours?

never worked anywhere in public or private sector where appttime had to be made up. doubt the case for ou but he needs to look at sickness policy.

 

[High Voltage]

to answer a few questions:

. . . i was told to look at their absence policy, which someone copied in was supposed to send to me.

. . . he reassured me that it was just a standard thing after having a certain amount of days off . . .

Sounds to me like you could have hit a Bradford Factor trigger point total

Have a look at this if you don't know what I'm on about

Now, IF this is the case you should have had a "back to work" interview after each and every period of absence - at this interview you should have been made aware of your current Bradford Factor total, if not then this could be failure to follow their disciplinary procedure and IF you end up being put through the disciplinary procedure at some point further down the line you should bring this up and that should mitigate any action - whatever you do DON'T mention that you haven't had your running total if they are using Bradford Factor have this one in your back pocket. Don't for one second think that you won't be put through a disciplinary procedure if your school is using the Bradford Factor system as this is the reason companies put in BF it makes managers manage all of their staff the same - it might not be nice or fluffy or fair but as long as the numbers have been set at "sensible" levels I, kind of see why it's used - I've worked in a company where BF has been used and have supported a colleague during a disciplinary

 

[Orang Utan]

it's all academic now, cos i'm not going to the appointment now. the pain was too great to bear, so i went to another emergency dentist and had it out, even though i didn't have the money to pay them. I have to pay an extra £100 to pay late. it was a fucking emergency, what else was i supposed to do? they wouldn't send me an invoice and let me pay a week late, the fuckers

 

[High Voltage]

Orang Utan It might be academic at the moment - but I would strongly recommend looking at your company hand book and see if anything Bradford Factor'y is listed - typically Bradford points work on a rolling 12 months - so whilst you're off the hook at the moment, it would be well to know what impact any future sickness and "sickness " days might have - if you're already at "informal talking to" stage by management, any more time off WILL result in the disciplinary procedure being implemented, starting with verbal warning - it's a lot easier to manage sickness when you're not on the back foot of being processed down the disciplinary root, believe me

 

[Orang Utan]

Sounds to me like you could have hit a Bradford Factor trigger point total

Have a look at this if you don't know what I'm on about

Now, IF this is the case you should have had a "back to work" interview after each and every period of absence - at this interview you should have been made aware of your current Bradford Factor total, if not then this could be failure to follow their disciplinary procedure and IF you end up being put through the disciplinary procedure at some point further down the line you should bring this up and that should mitigate any action - whatever you do DON'T mention that you haven't had your running total if they are using Bradford Factor have this one in your back pocket. Don't for one second think that you won't be put through a disciplinary procedure if your school is using the Bradford Factor system as this is the reason companies put in BF it makes managers manage all of their staff the same - it might not be nice or fluffy or fair but as long as the numbers have been set at "sensible" levels I, kind of see why it's used - I've worked in a company where BF has been used and have supported a colleague during a disciplinary

clicked on that link but can't read the result cos a massive banner ad obscures it

 

[High Voltage]

What it is, is a Bradford factor points calculator

you can do it yourself

cut 'n' paste from Wiki

The Bradford Factor is calculated as follows:

where:

• B is the Bradford Factor score
• S is the total number of spells (instances) of absence of an individual over a set period
• D is the total number of days of absence of that individual over the same set period[2]

The 'set period' is typically set as a rolling 52 week period.

For example, this is how 10 days absence could be shown:

• 1 instance of absence with a duration of ten days (1 x 1 x 10) = 10 points
• 3 instances of absence; one of one, one of three and one of six days (3 x 3 x 10) = 90 points
• 5 instances of absence; each of two days (5 x 5 x 10) = 250 points
• 10 instances of absence; each of one day (10 x 10 x 10) = 1000 points

And trigger points from the Bradford Factor page

The Bradford Factor Heat map below uses 3 scales:

• Concern (BF 45): Sufficient days for a manager to show concern and advise on possible disciplinary of financial actions, should more absences occur during an identified period.
• Concern (BF 100): Sufficient days for a manager to start disciplinary action (oral warning, written warning, formal monitoring etc)
• Concern (BF 900): Sufficient days for a manager to consider dismissal

Please note that figures given are for illustration purposes only and different companies will apply different thresholds. It is also important to remember that managers should be in constant communication with their staff, in order that they understand the issues and possible outcome of any prolonged or repeat absences.

When I "quickly" did a rough calculation on what I think are your days off I got up to 54 points - I might have got it wrong

 

[bi0boy]

What it is, is a Bradford factor points calculator

you can do it yourself

cut 'n' paste from Wiki

And trigger points from the Bradford Factor page

So basically, if you've been off for a few days and are going to have to take a day off next week for an appointment, management would prefer you take the days inbetween off sick too.

 

[High Voltage]

So basically, if you've been off for a few days and are going to have to take a day off next week for an appointment, management would prefer you take the days inbetween off sick too.

If you want to "play" the system, then that very much is the case - what Bradford is design for, allegedly, is to stop people taking the semi-regular day off here and there (throwing a sickie - which, ironically, OU appears to have done recently and IF Bradford is being used where he works, may have helped triggered the talk to)

Where I used to work, the guys on the shop floor would do exactly this - they would know their current Bradford score and you could pretty much predict to the day when they were going to be off "sick" - once one days illness have fallen off the rolling 12 months another one would immediately pop back on - you can only use this system if you are pretty much of "rude health" so don't genuinely need to have sick days in the bank so to speak - also, when it got too noticeable, what often happened where I worked was that you would be suspended from the company sick pay scheme and only were paid SSP - it didn't happen in many cases, but it could and did happen

 

[Pickman's model]

Sounds to me like you could have hit a Bradford Factor trigger point total

Have a look at this if you don't know what I'm on about

Now, IF this is the case you should have had a "back to work" interview after each and every period of absence - at this interview you should have been made aware of your current Bradford Factor total, if not then this could be failure to follow their disciplinary procedure and IF you end up being put through the disciplinary procedure at some point further down the line you should bring this up and that should mitigate any action - whatever you do DON'T mention that you haven't had your running total if they are using Bradford Factor have this one in your back pocket. Don't for one second think that you won't be put through a disciplinary procedure if your school is using the Bradford Factor system as this is the reason companies put in BF it makes managers manage all of their staff the same - it might not be nice or fluffy or fair but as long as the numbers have been set at "sensible" levels I, kind of see why it's used - I've worked in a company where BF has been used and have supported a colleague during a disciplinary

yeh, nice to see you agree with me. if sick policy mentions btw i/virws *and* ou not had them he's safe as houses. important tho to get a union which will support him which atl seem not to be.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I have nothing to add about employment stuff or teaching etc, but happy to hear you've had it out now, OU. Hopefully you'll be feeling a bit better soon, and that will reduce a little bit of the stress.

(((OU)))

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

it's all academic now, cos i'm not going to the appointment now. the pain was too great to bear, so i went to another emergency dentist and had it out, even though i didn't have the money to pay them. I have to pay an extra £100 to pay late. it was a fucking emergency, what else was i supposed to do? they wouldn't send me an invoice and let me pay a week late, the fuckers

You have my sympathy, tooth pain is the worst. Still an extra ton seems a bit steep. Could've just gobbed off down the pub and had it out for nowt.

 

[StoneRoad]

Hope your mouth isn't too sore today, Orang Utan - and that *other* things are improving as much as they can.

Maybe get some advice (on-line or by phone) from ACAS ? if your ATL rep is a bit un-supportive.

Best wishes to you.

 

[sim667]

I went for an emergency appointment this morning, expecting a temporary filling, but wanting it to be taken out. They told me the filling was intact, but I had an infected tooth. i was put on penicillin to clear the infection and they want to see me next week to see if it's better, (presuming I haven't laid my head on a traintrack by then). if not, then root canal or removal. the next possible appointment is in school hours. they don't have any appointments after 4.30 anyway and I work until 5.

They won't be able to do anything to it whilst its infected, i.e. removal or root canal..... So you may need to keep going back until they're sure its clear of infection, and then they'll do whatever work they think necessary.

Edit: just seen you've had it out.... I'm surprised they've done that whilst its infected but hey ho. Hope its better.

 

[Orang Utan]

They won't be able to do anything to it whilst its infected, i.e. removal or root canal..... So you may need to keep going back until they're sure its clear of infection, and then they'll do whatever work they think necessary.

They did. They pulled it out after five injections in my gob