India - Maoists being forced into violence.

[Dr Jon]

...
As for the Tribals - and there are a very large number of designated Tribal groups as you well know - they idea that a few AKs will end up with them having their own state is just bolloks - which is saddly the line that most Naxalite leaders peddle to them

The tribals don't want their own state; they just want the looting, murdering corporate thieves to leave them alone.

Wilson: interesting link, thanks.

See also:
Am I A Maoist?

 

[derf]

I am deeply uneasy about using violence to achieve politcal ends but then as I mentioned in the first paragraph I am a post-modern, pampered, UK resident who is sheltered to some extent from the harsher realities of capitalism. (Modern day serf).

I also agree with that person who said Derf needs to use some intellectual honesty. Having said that you can't force people to think like you even if you think they are misguided on the facts (reference me trying to persuade my gran not to be racist or that the British Empire exploited people in dreadful ways).

Political violence is usually a bad move with some exceptions.
It generally causes a lot more death and suffering than the alternative and, in the case of extremists like these, is likely to end up with a murderous state killing it's 'enemies' by the thousand.
That lot always have and always will. They try to enforce thought on the population and kill those that refuse to accept.

"Intellectual honesty"
The OP needs some intellectual realism and realise these people don't give a shit about the farmers. They care about power.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I also agree with that person who said Derf needs to use some intellectual honesty. Having said that you can't force people to think like you even if you think they are misguided on the facts (reference me trying to persuade my gran not to be racist or that the British Empire exploited people in dreadful ways).

That would be me. I'm not trying to force him to think like me or agree with me, what I am trying to do is get him to look at the facts and accept what they say, but he doesn't accept what they say because they don't agree with his own opinions.

Opinions are essentially worthless if they contradict the facts, and the facts contradict pretty much everything that spews forth from derf's bloated pie hole. He is of course entitled to this but it shows that he is intellectually dishonest because like a child he sticks his fingers in his ears and goes "LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING"

Political violence is usually a bad move with some exceptions.
It generally causes a lot more death and suffering than the alternative and, in the case of extremists like these, is likely to end up with a murderous state killing it's 'enemies' by the thousand.
That lot always have and always will. They try to enforce thought on the population and kill those that refuse to accept.

Here you go again, the same old boring shit. Why do you think these people turn to violence, derf? I hate violence just as much as you do but sometimes there's really no other choice when it comes to self defence. I don't know enough about the situation and if you notice I haven't really commented on it. You on the other hand do the same old "Well, these leftists are murdering cunts, the government probably is too but I won't make any posts about that i'll just focus on the other side's crimes and not the crimes of my own" and there lies the nub of your dishonesty.

"Intellectual honesty"
The OP needs some intellectual realism and realise these people don't give a shit about the farmers. They care about power.

Yes, yes that's exactly what's happened on this thread. People have celebrated farmers getting killed, supported the maoists 100% and we all hope they get power

 

[hipipol]

It is worth pointing out when those same farmers get decent advice they can actually get the courts to decide in their favour - admittedly they are still up against it, but by mobilising to use the tools that are there instead of resorting to weapons, not only can you get redress, you can sleep at night as you have no blood on your hands

http://www.indiaresource.org/

 

[Dr Jon]

Another Bloodbath On The Way



I also see that the Indian government are diverting tens of millions of dollars, originally allocated for poverty alleviation, to fund developments for the Commonwealth Games. ffs.



link

 

[Dr Jon]

All kicking off now: see the pigs attacking villagers and torching their huts

In a massive armed assault using crude bombs, bullets and batons, the Orissa police cracked down on over 1,500 villagers staging a peaceful sit-in dharna since January last against their imminent displacement to make way for South Korean mega corp Posco’s 12 million ton Greenfield steel plant in the coastal district of Jagatsinghpur, Orissa state, India. More than 100 people, five of them seriously, including women and children were injured in police action which began since the crack of the dawn on Saturday

Police Atrocity Against Villagers In Orissa

 

[Doctor Carrot]

All kicking off now: see the pigs attacking villagers and torching their huts



Police Atrocity Against Villagers In Orissa

It doesn't matter though because it's the state doing it. All those sit down villagers are clearly murdering, leftist scum who deserve it

Why was our resident wannabe cop banned anyway?

 

[Dr Jon]

Just spotted a piece on this by Charles Darwin's great grandson:

Can 'Civilised' People Show Such Disrespect For The Land And Those Who Cultivate It

See also his 2006 paper Anthropology of Genocide (PDF)

 

[JimW]

I know I shouldn't be surprised but the BBC's reporting on this has been shocking - lurid headlines accusing the Maoists of some crime or other, then even by its own lights the story turns out to be a police assertion published verbatim with little to no evidence or fact-checking, and where there are alternative sources never the straightforward tale we're presented.

 

[JimW]

Headlining their story on the attack on the train with a quote from the police, quoting a extremely dodgy sounding claim of responsibility:

"We have recovered two posters by a local Maoist militia from the site of the accident," said West Bengal Director General of Police Bhupinder Singh.

"They have claimed responsibility for the incident in the posters."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/10178967.stm

Don't want to go to far into the world of false flag but one of the world's largest media organisations still apparently unable to speak directly to any of the armed peasant's groups so unless you want to take the plod's word for it (one side in a shooting war) you are left speculating.

 

[JimW]

Good long-ish piece in MIT's World Policy Journal: The Forever War: Inside India's Maoist Conflict by Megha Bahree (link goes to first page but you can download a PDF of full article there for free)

 

[Red Paul]

ARUNDHATI ROY
THE OUTSTANDING INDIN FREEDOM FIGHTER IN INDIA ALIVE TODAY.
ON PAR WITH GANDHI.
War of the rich versus poor.

 

[Dr Jon]

No bad news from India

 

[JimW]

Academic article Countering India’s Maoist movement characterises the movement as spreading:

The Naxal movement has come a long way, and what was once a rebellion is now a threat to the country’s internal security. At least five Indian states (Chhattisgarh, West Bengal, Jharkhand, Orissa and Bihar) are predominantly Maoist and four others (Maharashtra, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh and Andhra Pradesh) remain critically Maoist affected. The Maoist movement is slowly but steadily gaining momentum in states like Uttarakhand, Punjab, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala and Tamilnadu. Violence has been widespread. Left wing extremism in India is increasingly characterised by its growing militarisation. There were as many as 1,003 casualties from 2,212 Maoist-related incidents in 2010 according to the Indian government. Maoists are now showing a greater tendency to engage security forces in prolonged encounters, suggesting a steady and reliable source of munitions.

Also claims (no evidence offered) that links are being made with Islamist insurgent groups.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Cheers.

 

[JimW]

See there's this in the latest NLR: http://www.newleftreview.org/?page=article&view=2910

Across most of the globe there has been a decline of left forces of all kinds over the past two decades. But there have been three or four countries in which political parties that trace their roots to the traditions of the Third International or to Maoism have remained stable or even grown: South Africa, Nepal, India and, arguably, the Philippines. South Africa has the SACP, while a Maoist party is the single largest political force in Nepal, and Maoism retains a national presence in the Philippines. The case of India is very interesting in that here there are representatives of both formations, which have—to an uneven extent—maintained or actually strengthened their reach over the past twenty years. Both the Stalinized Communist Party of India–Marxist (CPM) and the once larger, but now smaller and shrinking, Communist Party of India (CPI) have remained forces of some political significance. The CPM, unseated in West Bengal after a record 34 continuous years in office, even in defeat obtained around 30 per cent of the vote, at the head of the Left Front which won 41 per cent. Formations owing allegiance to the Maoist tradition, meanwhile, have actually increased their membership and extended their influence in recent years. Why has this been the case?

 

[Captain Hurrah]

The Philippines. The armed wing of the Communist Party , the NPA, is/was active in most of the country's provinces.

 

[JimW]

Photo special on Indian Maoists on one of the big Chinese web news portals: http://news.163.com/photoview/3R710001/22534.html#p=7V0KUUNP3R710001

 

[purves grundy]

Photo special on Indian Maoists on one of the big Chinese web news portals: http://news.163.com/photoview/3R710001/22534.html#p=7V0KUUNP3R710001

Good that who are the two blokes in the car on pic 23?

 

[JimW]

Good that who are the two blokes in the car on pic 23?

Says it's two Italians who were kidnapped for a month by an armed group and then released - that's them at the airport on way home April 12.
ETA: So not some famous old glam rock era star who funds Maoists

 

[Idris2002]

Photo special on Indian Maoists on one of the big Chinese web news portals: http://news.163.com/photoview/3R710001/22534.html#p=7V0KUUNP3R710001

What's that sites take on the Maoists, then? I thought the official line in China was to treat them as at best an embarassment.

As for the two bods in pic 23, they have a sort of "60s rock star and his manager" vibe, but I don't recognise them. . .

 

[JimW]

What's that sites take on the Maoists, then? I thought the official line in China was to treat them as at best an embarassment.

As for the two bods in pic 23, they have a sort of "60s rock star and his manager" vibe, but I don't recognise them. . .

Didn't read all the captions in detail, it was fairly neutral what I did see, but looking at the top-rated comment it was 'Digging up the roads, sabotaging the rails, women in the fighting - all looks a bit familiar.' Then the next lot were more negative - that site tends to be a liberal hang-out mostly.
ETA: You're right it's generally not seen as a good thing in offical terms, I should have said.

 

[Idris2002]

ETA: So not some famous old glam rock era star who funds Maoists

Maybe they were Italian rock gods? Didn't Mick and Keef hang out with some Italian aristo?

 

[JimW]

Maybe they were Italian rock gods? Didn't Mick and Keef hang out with some Italian aristo?

More of a Mediterranean Rod Stewart about him (I was listening to yer man's rather decent rendition of 'First Cut is the Deepest' just the other day)

 

[Brubricker]

There were as many as 1,003 casualties from 2,212 Maoist-related incidents in 2010 according to the Indian government.

Notice how violence and non-violence are lumped together as one statistic.

 

[JimW]

Looks like they've managed to kill the architect of some (since disbanded) vigilante squads set up to combat the insurgency:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-22667020

The Congress party leader killed in the attack was named as Mahendra Karma. A former home minister in Chhattisgarh, he was instrumental in setting up a vigilante group to fight the Maoists.
The current party leader in the state, Nandkumar Patel, and his son are believed to have been abducted in the attack which happened as the Congress politicians were returning from a campaign rally.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India...-target-in-Naxal-attack/Article1-1066165.aspx

Salwa Judum — Peace March or Purification Hunt in tribal Gondi language — saw young tribals in Chhattisgarh being armed with heavy weaponry to take on Maoists, most of whom are tribals.

The movement that started in 2005-06 was projected by its leading backers such as Karma as people’s resistance against Maoists.

The tribal versus tribal fight that played out in Chhattisgarh led to hundreds of killings and counter-killings before the Supreme Court ordered the state to disband Salwa Judum in 2011.

Had not read the term for their "liberated zones", Janatana Sarkar, before so had a bit of a Google and there's some interesting stuff, including this: http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/1LnN690wUpbM7o0jryroBI/Filling-the-void-in-governance.html

Typically, each Janatana Sarkar cell comprises a cluster of between five and seven settlements or villages; a population of 5,000 or so in a mixed geography of forest, hill, farmland and plains. A cell committee that administers Janatana Sarkar consists of adult villagers under the direct supervision of a Maoist political functionary.
Mostly, Janatana Sarkar resembles a mix of the village-level panchayati raj and block-level development and administrative functions, with clearances for various initiatives and projects taken at progressively higher levels of local and regional Maoist administration—the area committee, divisional committee, and so on up the scale. The Janatana Sarkar development committee would, say, undertake digging or dredging of ponds, and building of check dams. Janatana Sarkar’s agricultural committee inputs seeding and cropping techniques, clears land for farming (even redistributing or managing land appropriated from those marked as police informers) and injects the practice of cooperative farming. A corollary, the forest committee, supervises gathering of what government economists label minor forest produce—leaves, flowers—and bamboo; this is a revenue source for both residents and rebels. The medical committee arranges basic healthcare and runs a network of barefoot doctors.
The education committee handles basic education, teacher training schools and also indoctrination—this input comes directly from the rebel propaganda unit in the area. This dovetails with the cultural committee, used to motivate people to join the rebels; so it also has a talent-spotting role alongside propaganda.
As with education and culture, the rebel twist is evident in the defence committee, which provides for about five people in every settlement to be trained in the use of basic, locally made guns; some would continue to use traditional tribal bows and arrows, and axes. This village-level structure is a direct route to the militia—Jan Militia—that supports regular armed Maoist cadre in defence, raids, triggering pre-set explosive devices, and gathering intelligence. This is close to the heart of the rebel structure, as is the justice committee, which rules on a wide range of matters from infringements that can lead to fines, flogging or banishment; to summary execution for suspected police informers. The finance committee feeds it all. It taxes merchants of forest produce like those dealing in tendu leaves, small shop owners, transporters, timber merchants and all manner of contractors.

 

[Poo Flakes]

I can never find good coverage of this conflict.

A similar story in Assam.

 

[JimW]

I can never find good coverage of this conflict.

A similar story in Assam.

One article (might not be one of the linked ones) said the insurgency has been active in a third of India's 600 districts.Saw a map a while back that had it affecting a broad swathe north-south along the eastern side of the country.

 

[JimW]

On sources, had this blog by security analyst types bookmarked but then deleted it, think because it's not updated any more but archives still there: http://naxaliterage.com/
Less obviously axe-grindy is some articles at a decent India general interest mag I read occasionally, this is their tag for Maoists: http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/?s=Maoist

 

[seventh bullet]

One article (might not be one of the linked ones) said the insurgency has been active in a third of India's 600 districts.Saw a map a while back that had it affecting a broad swathe north-south along the eastern side of the country.

The red corridor, or 'compact revolutionary zone.'