Implications for the rest of us if Scotland votes yes

[J Ed]

I'd like to hope the Scots would be up for a Welsh / Scots union

Have Plaid ever floated that as an idea?

 

[pogofish]

It's getting quite close yet there seems very little discussion about the effect of a yes vote on what's being called rUK. Even that name is wrong, it will no longer be a united kingdom, just a single kingdom (well, queendom), untidily united with a principality, six counties and a few odd bits. As for the 'Great' in GB, well who knows.

What.... like this 37-pager? Last active only a few weeks ago

www.urban75.net/forums/threads/scottish-independence-as-an-englishman-am-i-wrong-not-to-give-a-crap.319994/

And mybe four or five others back to 2009!

 

[butchersapron]

interesting and timely article, but the thread that follows illustrates my point, because it's pretty much about a post-yes Scottish economy despite the wider, UK/rUK focus of what they were responding to.

(I know this post will have the same problems as you outline above but this seems to be the only thread on this without fixed positions now - have a read of this piece next to the one Frankie linked to).

 

[butchersapron]

What.... like this 37-pager?

www.urban75.net/forums/threads/scottish-independence-as-an-englishman-am-i-wrong-not-to-give-a-crap.319994/

And mybe four or five others back to 2009!

That one barely touched on the questions tbh

 

[pogofish]

That one barely touched on the questions tbh

It seems to be touching them on every page I'm dipping into just now - although I've no great desire to read all of it again

 

[catinthehat]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/06/noam-chomsky-on-scottish-independence-statehood-and-power/

Noam says..........

 

[DotCommunist]

It seems to be touching them on every page I'm dipping into just now - although I've no great desire to read all of it again

it was the also ran twat cousin to the main indy thread. I think there might be two decent pages in there but signal/noise

 

[pogofish]

it was the also ran twat cousin to the main indy thread. I think there might be two decent pages in there but signal/noise

Just like most of the rest of the "what will we poor English do" discussion then - which seems to belie a complete failure to understand how they contributed to or take any responability for the English state's fairly major contribution to the desire for independance in many Scots.

 

[dessiato]

Apropos the name, isn't the United Kingdom from "the united kingdoms of Great Britain an Northern Ireland"? In which case the the name doesn't need to change. IMO of course.

 

[DotCommunist]

We should go for something with an A because then it'd save time scrolling to the bottom when choosing country whenever you fill in an online form

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Apropos the name, isn't the United Kingdom from "the united kingdoms of Great Britain an Northern Ireland"?.

no

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

We should go for something with an A because then it'd save time scrolling to the bottom when choosing country whenever you fill in an online form

no it needs to be UK so we remain next to the US at the UN General Assembly

 

[The Boy]

no it needs to be UK so we remain next to the US at the UN General Assembly

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Reformed)?

 

[The39thStep]

As far as I know, there is no international law that requires the names of nations to be accurate. I guess England, Wales & NI would continue to use the name UK for simplicity sake.

Thank heavens for that I was sweating that we might have broken the law

 

[J Ed]

We should go for something with an A because then it'd save time scrolling to the bottom when choosing country whenever you fill in an online form

I vote Æthelstan

 

[Sue]

If Scotland decides to become independent, then it would really be none of its business what England, Wales & NI decide as a name. And if they felt slighted, then tough.

By the way, the Scots played their part in imperialist games in the past, and were fully involved in the Empire. So they're not the only imperialistic ones.

Why would Scottish people feel 'slighted' about what rUK calls itself, if independence happens?

 

[isvicthere?]

Scotland attempts to keep the pound. It is thus - since it lacks a central bank - barred from joining the EU. There is a Daily Mail/UKIP-style campaign for the government to "get tough" on immigration. Government - eager to appease the swivel-eyed backwoodsmen - clamp down on "non-EU" immigration. Scots are not allowed in.

 

[Coolfonz]

It is the worst possible outcome to have a very tight vote though. Didn't go down very well in Quebec, ethnic minorities were blamed for voting this way or that. Whichever way you dress it up, nationalism is ugly. 'Ooh look at my majestic fluttering flag' you McSchmucks.

 

[isvicthere?]

It's a kingdom it's united. It will still be the UK quite accurately.

When the Republic of Ireland seceded in 1921, it was still the UK. It will still be if the Scots do a bunk.

 

[newbie]

Who gives a fuck about flags?

The main thing is, if we vote Yes, you get a major earthquake right amongst your ossified establishment. Great holes will be riven in its ramparts. Breach those ramparts, people of England; storm them. This is our gift to you.

We agree on the main thing, particularly as the proportion of (land but also etc) ownership in rUK will be somewhat less concentrated than at present. I've seen analysis of Scotland, eg the article ba linked "land ownership is the most concentrated in the developed world (half of Scotland’s land is owned by just 500 people)" but not what that implies for post-yes rUK- the figure in my mind is 7% own 84% but that's decades old and includes Scotland. i don't know what a modern figure is and a brief google hasn't turned one up).

as for the flag, it's a symbol, nothing more, but like all important symbols it has a meaning beyond its own tawdry appearance.

 

[Wilf]

This shows my ignorance and that I haven't been following the ref till it got interesting in the last couple of weeks: what is the state of play on the split up of assets that still exist on a UK wide basis i.e. are not under the Scots Parliament already? Were there outline agreements at the time or is it all 'to be negotiated'? I'm aware of all the stuff on the debt, banks, currency and stuff, but I was thinking about things like the BBC. There's already the Glasgow production centre, but a lot of this 'national' org is still in London.

 

[MAD-T-REX]

It's all to be negotiated, which makes sense as the Scottish Government's position is weak until a favourable result comes in.

 

[Wilf]

It's all to be negotiated, which makes sense as the Scottish Government's position is weak until a favourable result comes in.

Unless that's all completely resolved by May next year (if the vote goes Yes of course) it would create a dilemma for Labour. They would have to promise Scotland a good deal to get enough seats to win a majority in Westminster, but wouldn't want to inflame English nationalism by doing exactly that.

 

[DotCommunist]

I vote Æthelstan

I'm lobbying for Angmar

 

[newbie]

Just like most of the rest of the "what will we poor English do" discussion then - which seems to belie a complete failure to understand how they contributed to or take any responability for the English state's fairly major contribution to the desire for independance in many Scots.

I think we understand that well enough just as I think we're entitled to a conversation about what we'll do if/when our circumstances change. A conversation which, and I mean no disrespect, doesn't really involve those who want little further to do with us.

 

[J Ed]

What about 111aaaland? If we name ourselves like an entrepreneurial taxi firm we will be in a great position to win the global race!

 

[MAD-T-REX]

Unless that's all completely resolved by May next year (if the vote goes Yes of course) it would create a dilemma for Labour. They would have to promise Scotland a good deal to get enough seats to win a majority in Westminster, but wouldn't want to inflame English nationalism by doing exactly that.

Related to this thread, the next Government is going to be short-lived if there's a Yes vote. All of the Scottish MPs leaving in 2016 should prompt a General Election and Labour would be foolish to pander to Scottish voters for a year in Government (or two years at the most if, as is rumoured, Tory MPs will demand that Cameron and the Cabinet resign following a Yes vote).

 

[newbie]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/06/noam-chomsky-on-scottish-independence-statehood-and-power/

Noam says..........

I'm not great at watching half hour videos, does he have anything useful to say about post-yes rUK?

 

[newbie]

Unless that's all completely resolved by May next year (if the vote goes Yes of course) it would create a dilemma for Labour. They would have to promise Scotland a good deal to get enough seats to win a majority in Westminster, but wouldn't want to inflame English nationalism by doing exactly that.

there's a proposal to (change the law and) delay the 2015 election till after they've left. tbh it's hard to see how any result in 2015 could make sense- Tam's East Lothian question writ large.

 

[weepiper]

there's a proposal to (change the law and) delay the 2015 election till after they've left. tbh it's hard to see how any result in 2015 could make sense- Tam's East Lothian question writ large.

West Lothian.