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Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

Pickman's model said:
Bernie Gunther
what anudder oik is saying is that someone had a motive to bring all these people to europe at the same time. the man's a particularly loony conspiraloon
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That someone was Merkel. Do you really believe she did it from the kindness of her heart, to save people, like she has done in Greece? Really? Your posts on here are a joke.
 
bimble said:
That assertion I quoted is absurd, and you're right about this thread, it's like voluntarily swimming upstream through shit .
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So the Guardian or Independent didn't cover this story? Have you got any evidence that liberal/left media haven't covered this story?

Perhaps you (or treelover/Annuder Oik) could actually name some of these groups that have ignored this issue. Or you could just post another 60 pages of vague shitty smears.
 
Casually Red said:
According to Forex, and senior EU official Ralph Timmerman, at least 60 percent of these migrants aren't refugees at all .

60% of refugees heading to Europe are economic migrants – top EU official

That backs up the account of that left wing writer I posted the other day . Whose freinds whod been helping asylum seekers were pissed off after finding out most of them werent . As indeed does the reported nationalities of the suspects identified so far . There's no getting away from the fact merkel specifically told these guys to come to Europe, that the door was open . And that German business leaders were straight out of the traps behind her publicly licking their lips . They definitely saw it as an opportunity .
I don't believe for a second those wars were about creating a cheap labour pool. But I do believe the refugee crisis those wars created was a good pr opportunity to take in a cheap labour pool from wherever wanted to come. That refugees fleeing war was a good way to sell the mass importation of cheap labour from wherever to the european public .Because the fact is if you're ticked off at hundreds of thousands of Algerians ,Tunisians, Moroccans etc being granted entry then you must hate refugees . So you're a bad uncaring person and should shut up .
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logic not your strong point.
 
sihhi said:
No evidence as to why it is absurd. It's a heavy accusation against me that I am cess polluting a cesspit so I have to answer it.

I don't have a database program to do any kind of proper search.

But a google search of news reveals the Guardian's first report was on 5 January, exactly the same day as the Telegraph's first report. The Guardian has a report filed from Berlin and its correspondent there, and The Telegraph has a report filed from its correspondent there.

From then on both have reports and comment and editorials related to the events. They are as vigorous as each other.

The only case of a media cover-up is the decision by the ZDF Germany's equivalent of BBC not to broadcast material on 4 January, the first working day of the new year. Their justification was that they wanted more material to do a longer report and corroborate details. They did broadcast their news reports on 5 January. It was an error, but it has zero to do with the left. The insistence on placing this as the fault of the left is just unspeakable.
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redsquirrel said:
So the Guardian or Independent didn't cover this story? Have you got any evidence that liberal/left media haven't covered this story?

Perhaps you (or treelover/Annuder Oik) could actually name some of these groups that have ignored this issue. Or you could just post another 60 pages of vague shitty smears.
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I have never ever said that the mass assaults were somehow the fault of 'the left'. FFS. The claim that everybody across the political spectrum has been reporting on / commenting on these events with "equal vigour" is plainly absurd though. Surely you can see that.
Just use google - type in Cologne and Attacks or NYE for instance and the 'news' button' and see what you get, who has been writing about this in the last couple of weeks - see which websites you have to click on to try to find out the figures (as in how many reports of assault on NYE, how many people arrested so far etc).

The Guardian hasn't touched the story at all for the last two weeks - since 12th Jan (with this opinion piece here which is decent enough but basically just the same as all their previous ones saying we really should talk about this but then saying very little at all.. "We can manage this, but not by hiding under the duvet." etc Cologne attacks: we must avoid the risk of 'sexual jihad'

Meanwhile, the DM the Express etc are churning out articles about this every day, along with Breitbart and Bild and worse. "vigour' is not a good thing in this context by the way.
 
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Constant slander, petty childish insults, sectarian and stalker attitudes and strawman arguments, concentrating on the posters rather than the issue, over and over again. That's the cesspit side.

Meanwhile others refuse to let this theme lie, why? Because it is a really important issue with far reaching political and social consequences for the future, that's why? It cannot and should not be swept under the carpet or conceded to the far right as "their issue".

The left did not cover it up but the resulting silence is deafening.

As for the feminists, apart from a gathering at Cologne they seem to be keeping a low profile. Anyway, necessity is the mother of invention and there is still hope that the social alarm caused by NYE, which has scared women off the streets, will bring into activity a layer of women who up till now have not concerned themselves with women's rights . There is nothing like a direct threat to motivate people to stand up for themselves. Maybe some good will come of it, after all. Will be checking here for news of it.
 
redsquirrel said:
So the Guardian or Independent didn't cover this story? Have you got any evidence that liberal/left media haven't covered this story?

Perhaps you (or treelover/Annuder Oik) could actually name some of these groups that have ignored this issue. Or you could just post another 60 pages of vague shitty smears.
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Socialist workers party. The article they ran was written by an ostrich. you know? Evasive, far right scare mongering. Socialist party has nothing. Die Linke, in Germany has nothing.

Can you tell me which other sources of organized left I can consult?
 
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Anudder Oik said:
Socialist workers party. The article they ran was written by an ostrich. you know? Evasive, far right scare mongering. Socialist party has nothing. Die Linke, in Germany has nothing.

Can you tell me which other sources of organized left I can consult?
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have you looked again at the chronology of events?
 
Anudder Oik said:
Are you talking about the time elapsed between the NYE attacks and the mainstream media running with it?

Would that chronology go to explaining the silence almost one month later?
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no, i am talking about your ludicrous claim that merkel brought all the refugees to europe. laid on trains for them, did she? you fucking gobshite muppet.
 
Anudder Oik said:
Socialist workers party. The article they ran was written by an ostrich. you know? Evasive, far right scare mongering. Socialist party has nothing. Die Linke, in Germany has nothing.

Can you tell me which other sources of organized left I can consult?
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Actually Die Linke Koln has this:

DIE LINKE. Kreisverband Köln:Sexuelle Gewalt in der Sylvesternacht am Kölner Hauptbahnhof verurteilen - Sexuelle Gewalt ist kein „Ausländerproblem“!


Rough google translate version of which reads:

Sexual Violence in the New Year's Eve at Cologne Central Station condemn - Sexual violence is not a "foreigner problem"!
The DIE LINKE condemns the sexual assaults on women in the New Year's Eve in the strongest terms. The police believe that several hundred men have committed in the station hall and on the forecourt trick thefts compared to women and men. Here some offenders have been sexually violent towards women. On Monday, January 4, called the police, the number of 15 women who were sexually harassed, and a total of 90 victims of Trickdiebe.
It urgently needs to be clarified why the police have the situation completely misjudged on New Years Eve and not intervened effectively.
DIE LINKE welcomes the fact that the police will step up its presence in the future at critical points at public celebrations. It is important to be able to intervene early if perpetrators believe that they can exercise violence with impunity under the cover of large crowds. More police presence alone will not solve the problem. Patriarchal violence must wherever it occurs, be made visible and fights.
Have robbed and harassed the men who threatened New Year's Eve women, are criminals and must be treated as such, regardless of their origin. It can and should no distinction between German and foreign offenders are made. Therefore, the Left rejects the call for deportations. Perpetrators must be a constitutional process in Germany to be made.
To make no difference also means choosing the racist Hetzer / -Innen to contradict impute the North African or Arabic burly men in general, women face to be violent. The vast majority of refugees, illegals and Cologne this origin living lawfully and without violence among us. Police statistics show: from men with an immigrant background is not sexual violence as a percentage of German perpetrators. AfD, "Pro Cologne", Pegida and other racist groups is not about solving social problems. You want to authoritarian measures.
Respect is the key word against violence. We demand respect for women, but also respect for people of different backgrounds. Violence must be punished, be strengthened violence prevention. Support this important work must be given more resources.

That sounds like a consistent left-wing position to me: condemn the perpetrators of sexual violence without equivocation, condemn those who want to exploit this case to further a racist political agenda, put the state on trial.
 
One wee point about Cologne - it's actually in the small bit of Germany that was under Roman occupation, and was founded as a Roman garrison town. Ever since then, it's been a crossroads with all manner of people coming and going.

This left such a mark on the genetics of the local population that the Nazis were unable to fit the local population into the physical categorizations (shapes of heads, noses, etc.) which they derived from their peculiar racial ideas.
 
Pickman's model said:
what's your point, caller?
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Hi, I was just calling to say that it's a shame that socialist newspaper article there felt the need to resort to that dismissive argument (the same one as in the socialist world news thingy the other day) - the 'nothing to see here' trope that goes "Countless young women have been sexually harassed at festivals, discos and places frequented by drunken young men", and " visitors to the Rhineland carnivals or the Munich October beer festival will know that drunken loutish behaviour is not uncommon.' etc.

Because it started well, when it said 'These terrifying attacks should not be dismissed: Cologne police took statements on assaults from over 500 women - many of whom were subjected to terrifying sexual attacks.'
 
bimble said:
Hi, I was just calling to say that it's a shame that socialist newspaper article there felt the need to resort to that dismissive argument (the same one as in the socialist world news thingy the other day) - the 'nothing to see here' trope that goes "Countless young women have been sexually harassed at festivals, discos and places frequented by drunken young men", and " visitors to the Rhineland carnivals or the Munich October beer festival will know that drunken loutish behaviour is not uncommon.' etc.

Because it started well, when it said 'These terrifying attacks should not be dismissed: Cologne police took statements on assaults from over 500 women - many of whom were subjected to terrifying sexual attacks.'
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i am sorry you did not read the article with the attention i expected.
 
bimble said:
Hi, I was just calling to say that it's a shame that socialist newspaper article there felt the need to resort to that dismissive argument (the same one as in the socialist world news thingy the other day) - the 'nothing to see here' trope that goes "Countless young women have been sexually harassed at festivals, discos and places frequented by drunken young men", and " visitors to the Rhineland carnivals or the Munich October beer festival will know that drunken loutish behaviour is not uncommon.' etc.

Because it started well, when it said 'These terrifying attacks should not be dismissed: Cologne police took statements on assaults from over 500 women - many of whom were subjected to terrifying sexual attacks.'
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But is it really a dismissive argument? If you don't want the far right (and mainstream politicians) exploiting this case, isn't it worth pointing out that everything in the garden was not rosy before New Years' Eve? Because if the far right (and mainstream politicians) get their way, they won't just deport the perpetrators of NYE, they won't even stop at those who do have culturally-rooted misogyny, they'll fix it so that everyone with the label "refugee" gets it in the neck.
 
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bimble said:
I think all the rest of it is good, but minimising the event by attempting comparisons with Oktoberfest / discos was totally unnecessary far as I can see.
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no, i am sorry you did not read it with the attention i expected.

1) the article is dated 13 january: although i agree the oktoberfest comparison not wholly appropriate, people are still going on about it here and i don't believe you can damn the s.p. for making an obvious if inappropriate comparison at that point. i imagine if they wrote an article about it now they'd write it rather differently
2) the point i think was not that the article was in any case good, the point is that it appeared counter to anudder oik's claim.
 
Idris2002 said:
One wee point about Cologne - it's actually in the small bit of Germany that was under Roman occupation, and was founded as a Roman garrison town. Ever since then, it's been a crossroads with all manner of people coming and going.

This left such a mark on the genetics of the local population that the Nazis were unable to fit the local population into the physical categorizations (shapes of heads, noses, etc.) which they derived from their peculiar racial ideas.
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I think a group of edelweiss pirates were publicly hung by the station. Hotbed of anti-nazi resistance that city.
 
Idris2002 said:
But is it really a dismissive argument? If you don't want the far right (and mainstream politicians) exploiting this case, isn't it worth pointing out that everything in the garden was not rosy before New Years' Eve? Because if the far right (and mainstream politicians) get their way, they won't just deport the perpetrators of NYE, they won't even stop at those who do have culturally-rooted misogyny, they'll fix it so that everyone with the label "refugee" gets in the neck.
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Fair enough. Of course everything wasn't rosy in the garden. I agree completely with the basic idea that this is a feminist issue which has been usurped by racists shouting all of a sudden about 'our women'.
 
bimble said:
The claim that everybody across the political spectrum has been reporting on / commenting on these events with "equal vigour" is plainly absurd though. Surely you can see that.
Just use google - type in Cologne and Attacks or NYE for instance and the 'news' button' and see what you get, who has been writing about this in the last couple of weeks - see which websites you have to click on to try to find out the figures (as in how many reports of assault on NYE, how many people arrested so far etc).

The Guardian hasn't touched the story at all for the last two weeks - since 12th Jan (with this opinion piece here which is decent enough but basically just the same as all their previous ones saying we really should talk about this but then saying very little at all.. "We can manage this, but not by hiding under the duvet." etc Cologne attacks: we must avoid the risk of 'sexual jihad'

Meanwhile, the DM the Express etc are churning out articles about this every day, along with Breitbart and Bild and worse. "vigour' is not a good thing in this context by the way.
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The Guardian has featured opinion editorial and reporting good or bad about Cologne since that date you mention over the past two weeks here are some:-

After the Cologne attacks, refugees must be housed within the wider community | Ghiath Al Jebawi

The migrant bogeyman is back | Nesrine Malik

Cologne attacks: first arrest over New Year's Eve sex assaults

Deutschland 83’s Maria Schrader: ‘Many Germans were once refugees. That should make us more understanding’

Society needs to find shared values again | Cristina Odone

The Guardian view on the refugee crisis: dial down the rhetoric, and have the difficult debate | Editorial

The Observer view on Europe’s migration problem | Observer editorial

The author of the Huffington Piece suggested the left/liberal media refused to see/report on events. That is not true.
 
sihhi said:
The Guardian has featured opinion editorial and reporting good or bad about Cologne since that date you mention over the past two weeks here are some:-

After the Cologne attacks, refugees must be housed within the wider community | Ghiath Al Jebawi

The migrant bogeyman is back | Nesrine Malik

Cologne attacks: first arrest over New Year's Eve sex assaults

Deutschland 83’s Maria Schrader: ‘Many Germans were once refugees. That should make us more understanding’

Society needs to find shared values again | Cristina Odone

The Guardian view on the refugee crisis: dial down the rhetoric, and have the difficult debate | Editorial

The Observer view on Europe’s migration problem | Observer editorial

The author of the Huffington Piece suggested the left/liberal media refused to see/report on events. That is not true.
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Thanks, I did manage to miss almost all of those, not sure how many of them are actually about what happened on NYE but will have a real later.

This one on the coverup of the Swedish festival mass sexual assaults is interesting too:

" it is impossible either to prove or to disprove, from official statistics, the nationalist claim that the rapists are disproportionately young male migrants. Yet that claim is repeated as a fact in racist and xenophobic parts of the internet. What is certain is that you would hardly ever find it mentioned, even to refute, in the reputable Swedish media – until last week...

This is the really damaging effect of the Stockholm scandal – and it is worth noting that only one of the reported assaults at the festival was classed as rape: most were mob gropings, which are still terrifying and criminal violations.
The Swedish political and media establishment decided to deal with the threat of a nationalist and xenophobic party, the Sweden Democrats, by ignoring them and hoping they would go away. This policy was fuelled partly by wishful thinking, partly by principle and partly by self-righteousness. It ended disastrously. .
It is absolutely clear – with the publication of internal memos by the newspaper Dagens Nyheter – that the Stockholm police failed to report the sex assaults at the festival for fear of worsening ethnic tensions. And it was understood by all parties that this would lead to an electoral advantage for the Sweden Democrats. .
So teenage girls were systematically assaulted and robbed by gangs of young foreign men because too many powerful people found their suffering was inconvenient. The result of this cover-up will be far more damaging than the truth could have been."This cover-up of sex assaults in Sweden is a gift for xenophobes | Andrew Brown
 
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