I certainly wouldn't want to replace our planning consultation process with a Chinese authoritarian system.
That said, once a decision is made we do spend far too long fucking about instead of getting on with it....
HS2 high-speed London-Birmingham route rail project - discussion
- Thread starter Oswaldtwistle
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I certainly wouldn't want to replace our planning consultation process with a Chinese authoritarian system.
That said, once a decision is made we do spend far too long fucking about instead of getting on with it....
davesgcr
Reading books
HS1 was a fairly decent programme - about 15 years of consultation and development / building - and that after a change of direction from Plan A (which would have gone underground in the Peckham area - to the present "Eastern" approaches and a tunnel via Stratford.
Much of the angst from Kent was handled very well - and overall (to my mind anyway) - the route fits in very well - and the Medway Viaduct is a fine addition to the landscape - paralleling the motorway was a savvy move I reckon (for much of the way)
Crossrail was first mooted in 1948 or so - the Victoria line also - one was delivered in 1967 - the other is nearly there. Major schemes can take a lifetime - some of the planners I knew in LUL involved in planing Crossrail 1 are no longer with us !
Much revolves around cash availability of course - but the French class projects like this as "schemes of national utility" or similar - which tends to clear the way - though they of course make allowances for things like "importnt" vineyards (!) etc .......the Germans also have a high environmental profile on their newish HS lines.
Much of the angst from Kent was handled very well - and overall (to my mind anyway) - the route fits in very well - and the Medway Viaduct is a fine addition to the landscape - paralleling the motorway was a savvy move I reckon (for much of the way)
Crossrail was first mooted in 1948 or so - the Victoria line also - one was delivered in 1967 - the other is nearly there. Major schemes can take a lifetime - some of the planners I knew in LUL involved in planing Crossrail 1 are no longer with us !
Much revolves around cash availability of course - but the French class projects like this as "schemes of national utility" or similar - which tends to clear the way - though they of course make allowances for things like "importnt" vineyards (!) etc .......the Germans also have a high environmental profile on their newish HS lines.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Funnily enough the latest Wine Society newsletter includes a report of the risk to a Sauternes vineyards caused by a proposed TGV line!
davesgcr
Reading books
Perhaps there will be a compromise - "the glory of France and all that" ..
- one of the issues of the Lille - Paris line was careful mapping of ex WW1 battle areas for old ordnance etc ....
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
I'm not in favour but now the decision has been made let's get on with it.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
I'm not either but as you say if you're going to build it, do it right and start now!
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Zombie Train - Long Read
This article is really about the particulars of HS2's political genesis. Simon Jenkins claims that the capacity predictions are false and that Euston is still only running at 60%. Now I'm so confused ? That was the killer argument in it's favour. Where are we now?
This article is really about the particulars of HS2's political genesis. Simon Jenkins claims that the capacity predictions are false and that Euston is still only running at 60%. Now I'm so confused ? That was the killer argument in it's favour. Where are we now?
davesgcr
Reading books
As a somewhat experienced railway manager (recently retired) , with responsibility for suburban services (as far as Birmingam ) -from Euston pre 2000 , I would challenge anyone to say that Euston is (or was) - underused - once the timetable had been broadly agreed we used to have a council of plannig with the staff , the signalmen and women , supevisors etc to do the detailed platform planning as to where trains were placed off the running lines - taking into account such trivia as passenger flows to the underground and buses etc.
It was such an easy task it took a panel of people with about several centuries of practical and planning experience about 3 days work to do the core plan for Monday to Friday - 0600 to 2000 , with gallons of strong tea and coffee.
Damned busier now ...people as well as trains. Those who do (or did) and those who opine ...
Simon Jenkins knows fuck all... Who fed him that line, I wonder?
Probably Prideaux, who seems to have a conflict of interest with rolling stock leasing.
Jenkins: "Euston was the least-pressured London long-distance station: using only 60% of capacity in the morning peak, while trains at Paddington and Waterloo were over 100%." Seems not to understand the important distinction between train loading and path availability. There's a hint he may be looking only at First Class seat occupancy
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Why not build HS2 and then merge Surrey into Warwickshire and North Oxford thus alleviating Waterloo.
Problem solved !
Problem solved !
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Someone's design for double decker trains to run on HS2 *and* regular lines:
Andreas Vogler / AeroLiner3000
Andreas Vogler / AeroLiner3000
bi0boy
Power User
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
30% more capacity at what % extra cost for such a custom design?
All the HS2 trains will be adaptations of existing models from the usual suspects, Alstom, Bombardier, Hitachi etc. That *may* include double deckers for teh captive routes in the future.
All the HS2 trains will be adaptations of existing models from the usual suspects, Alstom, Bombardier, Hitachi etc. That *may* include double deckers for teh captive routes in the future.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
So, £400,000,000.00 per mile and shady dealings going on already, it's a railway garden bridge.
So the plans for the Old Oak Common interchange have come across my desk and I also managed to find this on-line:
Engineering plans for HS2 Old Oak Common station revealed
Very interesting stuff and its a pretty massive engineering challenge. Linking it with the existing GWR services out of Paddington and the new cross rail stuff was always going to be the way forward. I'm still unconvinced (not against per se) with the last link to Euston. I dunno it just seems like a massive undertaking when there are already existing services there.
Engineering plans for HS2 Old Oak Common station revealed
Very interesting stuff and its a pretty massive engineering challenge. Linking it with the existing GWR services out of Paddington and the new cross rail stuff was always going to be the way forward. I'm still unconvinced (not against per se) with the last link to Euston. I dunno it just seems like a massive undertaking when there are already existing services there.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
That is going to be a big project indeed. 1km long station box!
re: Euston as the terminus: There's just nowhere else to put it. They looked at other options like a massive underground station, terminating at Old Oak, or next to Paddington. The Euston option was the least bad.
re: Euston as the terminus: There's just nowhere else to put it. They looked at other options like a massive underground station, terminating at Old Oak, or next to Paddington. The Euston option was the least bad.
Its the scale of the excavation and with all the earth being contaminated as well. This is going to be an epic project to be involved in.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
So are they expanding Euston somehow? I can’t get my head round that bit - it’s underground from Euston to Old Oak Common? Then where does it eventually pop out the ground?
It goes underground north from Old Oak so probably somewhere around Brent / Wembley area I would have thought. Certainly the other side of North Circular I would have thought.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
They're basically demolishing entire city blocks. The part on the Western side will be built first. Then when Phase 1 (Birmingham) HS2 trains are running into it, the bit of exisiting station in the blue area below will be demolished and turned into more HS2 platforms for Phase 2 (Manchester & Leeds).
It'll be underground at OOC too, just with parts of the station open to the air. A bit like Stratford International:
It'll stay underground from there to the M25 where it briefly surfaces before going underground again until the other side of the Chilterns. There's a map at Interactive Map | HS2 where you can see all the types of track the route is made of. Phase 1 is mostly in tunnels or cuttings.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
The beauty of tunnelling out of London will be the vastly reduced fucking about, the old lines have to contend with multiple junctions and stations requiring low speed limits. This is where a lot of time savings will be made. They should double up on the tunnelling and run some of the regular Paddington trains through to Euston too for better connectivity.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Tons of detail on the plans for Euston here:
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../file/550196/Exhibit_A_Overview_of_Scheme.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../file/550196/Exhibit_A_Overview_of_Scheme.pdf
ice-is-forming
I was born naked, shameless & fucking outrageous..
Are these plans a part of forward planning for the commonwealth games in 2022?
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Phase 1 isn't opening till 2026, so no not really
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Hope they sort out the shitty bus station at Euston too, which a) looks shitty; b) is a barrier to pedestrian access; c) takes fucking ages to get through on a bus. They’ve done a pretty good job sorting out Kings Cross so hopefully there will be a public space out front of a similar standard and buses stopping on the road rather than wasting minutes doing the current dog-leg route.
I also noticed the other day how wide the platforms are in Euston compared to other stations, reckon they could maybe fit more platforms if they shuffled them a bit closer (subject to supporting structure etc.)
I also noticed the other day how wide the platforms are in Euston compared to other stations, reckon they could maybe fit more platforms if they shuffled them a bit closer (subject to supporting structure etc.)
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