How did G20 protest look to the public?

[Paulie Tandoori]

indeed.

 

[cesare]

This is capitalism. Were you under some illusion?

I know it is. I'm under no illusion. That's my problem, and that's where I get hung up on all this. If someone were to present me with a viable economic alternative to consider - great, let's hear it. But until then it's a curbing the excesses argument.

If it all comes crashing down, and we move into barter instead or somesuch, good.

But that's not imminent.

 

[butchersapron]

What's not imminent

 

[butchersapron]

How does this look to the general forum btw?

 

[butchersapron]

I know it is. I'm under no illusion. That's my problem, and that's where I get hung up on all this. If someone were to present me with a viable economic alternative to consider - great, let's hear it. But until then it's a curbing the excesses argument.

If it all comes crashing down, and we move into barter instead or somesuch, good.

But that's not imminent.

How many billions do you speak for btw?

 

[cesare]

How many billions do you speak for btw?

I don't speak for billions. I only speak for me. If I'm doing it wrong, tell me what to do instead.

 

[butchersapron]

Stop speaking like you speak for thousands with your liberal concerned piss.

 

[butchersapron]

Actually, you do speak for thousands with your liberal concerned piss on here.

 

[cesare]

Actually, you do speak for thousands with your liberal concerned piss on here.

And that's the fucking problem isn't it. Cos when push comes to shove and someone asks you what to do instead - you haven't got a fucking answer.

 

[butchersapron]

And that's the fucking problem isn't it. Cos when push comes to shove and someone asks you what to do instead - you haven't got a fucking answer.

I've got an answer - how many evictions were there in your city last week? There were 2000 *activists* in the city - how many evictions did they stop?

Give me your answer.

 

[butchersapron]

And that's the fucking problem isn't it. Cos when push comes to shove and someone asks you what to do instead - you haven't got a fucking answer.

What is this answer?

 

[cesare]

I've got an answer - how many evictions were there in your city last week? There were 2000 *activists* in the city - how many evictions did they stop?

Give me your answer.

So you can point out the realities - big deal. You can provide statistics as to what's happening. That's not hard.

So what's your solution? What should we do?

 

[butchersapron]

And that's the fucking problem isn't it. Cos when push comes to shove and someone asks you what to do instead - you haven't got a fucking answer.

are you kidding?

Mechanics lessons
football/darts etc teams
bozze cruise
free internet
welfare advice
social credit
legal support
film clubs

...and so on -why?

Because there's a crap riot in london with crap violence.

 

[butchersapron]

So you can point out the realities - big deal. You can provide statistics as to what's happening. That's not hard.

So what's your solution? What should we do?

Can you? - if not, then shut the fuck up demanding them

 

[cesare]

Can you? - if not, then shut the fuck up demanding them

Do you have an alternative for economic and social change?

 

[xes]

I found that the general view on the street was one siding with the nazi scum police. I had a "heated debate" on this in the pub, firday night. Not everyone saw it like that, but the people who only see the BBC and Sky as their main news source, thought that it was a terribly violent thing, and the protesters had it coming.

Which pisses me off to fuck and back.

 

[London_Calling]

I think the public would have got behind a clear single message/slogan but with everything from Tibet to Stop the War (which war? most ask) there was insufficient connection with the mainstream for the implicit assumptions about violence to be overcome.

 

[danny la rouge]

there was insufficient connection with the mainstream

There was insufficient connection with grassroots, community activity. It's too easy to dismiss as hippies doing what hippies do if there's no rootedness. In my opinion.

(And, no, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it).

 

[dennisr]

It will all look very irrelevent if the occupations, such as those of the Visteon workers, and strike waves building worldwide take hold

 

[jæd]

It will all look very irrelevent if the occupations, such as those of the Visteon workers, and strike waves building worldwide take hold

I like the idea that occupying an employer that has gone bust will increase demand and magically ressurect the business. A sure-fire strategy...!

 

[editor]

he wants you to explain why you going and photographing a protest is better than him not photographing a protest

I made no such claim. Try reading what I wrote.

 

[dennisr]

I like the idea that occupying an employer that has gone bust will increase demand and magically ressurect the business. A sure-fire strategy...!

Firstly - folk are getting ripped off in terms of redundancy and pensions. An occupation puts you in a position to better negotiate than being left to minimum statutory redundancy pay from the state. In the case of Visteon even workers with over 30 years service will only get about £9,000 and most workers a lot less. Also their pensions, plus those of ex-Visteon workers in Swansea and retirees, will go into the Pension Protection Fund, which will result in reduced payments. Preasure can be put on Fords - via the unions at Fords - to retain jobs or honour the redundancy agreement. If that fails, the occupation can be built to involve the trade union movement and working-class community to force the government to intervene to nationalise Visteon to save these jobs. Preasure can be put on the government to interveine in the same way they bailed out the bankers. Why? because such factory closures effect the entire community - the knock on effect on those around the plant, families etc etc etc

In Basildon, heavy-handed policing and threats of arrest forced the workers reluctantly to come out of the factory on Wednesday evening. But they were back on mass next morning to protest at Visteon Customer Technology Centre, just up the road from the Basildon plant. This is allegedly an 'independent' company. In reality it is another way of silting off Visteon profits to make it look like Visteon itself has been making a loss. BUT IT ISN"T. The VCT centre is still working, and Visteon workers protested at it to call for support from the workers inside. Some workers did come out to join the protest. The building was protected by two rows of armed police and managers were escorted to their BMWs by three policemen each.

Ultimately though it raises the whole question of who makes the profits and who pays the price when the economy goes pear-shaped. It also raises the question of weather this 'magical' economic system - the one workers face the consequences of - actually WORKS (and creates 'demand' in the first place). I would argue - a feck site more effectively in ordinary people's minds than any climate camp, broken bank window etc (not that i am having a go at those attempts at raising the issue - i just think this movement needs support becasue it will get straight to the heart of the issues at hand)

 

[butchersapron]

I like the idea that occupying an employer that has gone bust will increase demand and magically ressurect the business. A sure-fire strategy...!

Just look at your jewellery and leave the complicated stuff to the rest of us Jade.

 

[danny la rouge]

It will all look very irrelevent if the occupations, such as those of the Visteon workers, and strike waves building worldwide take hold

Indeed.

 

[purplex]

Myself, I feel the violence carried out by a minority of protesters, tarnished all the protesters in the public eye. Silly boys and girls running around dressed in black, made the protesters look thugish, and at the same time comical.

The appearance given to the public, was of a tiny number of protesters looking for a ruck with the police, who seem to live on another planet from the rest of the population.
Nothing has been achieved from the protest, and was a total waste of time.
A public relations disaster for the different groups of the far left.

Meanwhile a 17 year old kid and a 21 year old, have been charged with burglary, criminal damage and arson, in regards to the RBS incident.
Many more to be charged, I don't doubt. All for nothing.

Ive heard the argument that a smashed window prevents ordinary people from protesting. Thats just untrue, if people feel angry enough theyll get on their feet. The Iraq war protests proved that. That wasnt so long ago.
Whether anything is immediately achieved from the protests is a red herring, without protesting nothing ever changes. British Governments are condemned if they dont appear strong, the only way to make your point heard is to take to the streets. It was incredibly important that those protests occurred during the G20 conference.
The other arguments of the "great unwashed" type are very easy to argue against, plenty of people of my generation will have been to squat parties, hippy raves, castlemorton and will know that the alternative tribes are peaceful and quite able to police themselves. Football supporters will know all about oppressive police tactics.

 

[dennisr]

I found that the general view on the street was one siding with the nazi scum police. I had a "heated debate" on this in the pub, firday night. Not everyone saw it like that, but the people who only see the BBC and Sky as their main news source, thought that it was a terribly violent thing, and the protesters had it coming.

Which pisses me off to fuck and back.

blimey, where do you drink mate? I mean most of my friends are not particularly political or 'on the left', my family certainly isn't but the general consensus was 'the violence and damage was stupid but we couldn't really give a toss about a few upset bankers'

 

[Fruitloop]

Take a look at the Daily Mail and there's your answer...

'Cos the working class of Britain write the Daily Mail?

 

[Kenny Vermouth]

If those blinkered cunts hadn't been having their pointless protest in the first place, that poor fellow wouldn't have died.

 

[DotCommunist]

fuck off kenny

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

If those blinkered cunts hadn't been having their pointless protest in the first place, that poor fellow wouldn't have died.