Hold your nose and vote Labour?

[BusLanes]

I live in a very safe Labour seat so me and a few thousand others could vote for whomever and she'd still win.

Local MP seems ok tho, fwiw. She's new from 2019 and seems to know how to be a good constituency MP.

 

[editor]

I have tended to vote Labour despite their policies and political history.

I can’t see myself doing so in the next GE nor indeed in the upcoming council elections.

Not sure who will get my vote if any.

What about you?

I really really loathe Labour in Lambeth and the way they treated council tenants with utter contempt means that for the first time I won't give at least one vote to them (unless it's a tactical move to stop the fucking Tories).

Plus Keir Starmer is an absolute bellend.

 

[redsquirrel]

Where did I say it was a gift. But the victory didn’t result in these things magically popping into existence.

They had to be delivered by a mechanism. And that mechanism was a Labour government.

Struggle is a process not a single point.
The struggle of workers over many years resulted in welfare states internationally, sometimes delivered by centre-left governments, sometimes by centre-right governments. But it was the strength of the workers that ensured they got the gains they did not the benign actions of centre-left parties.

But even if the LP (or its equivalent) is the key to the mechanism of delivery, that does not mean that one needs to vote Labour under any and all circumstances.
It is perfectly logical to see the LP as one, or even the best, way of delivering gains for the working class and see a vote for it under the current circumstances as a bad tactical decision.

You always go on about 'revolutionaries' and 'purity' but the only people to show any 'purity' on this thread are those like you that insist that people must vote Labour, that anything else is support ingthe Tories.
Most of the people on this thread are not revolutionaries, most would consider voting Labour under the correct circumstances, many did vote Labour under Corbyn.

 

[editor]

I don't really think that Labour are going to be much/any better on most of the issues that really matter, bar I think Miliband is genuinely sincere on environmental issues. But I have been given the clear message that I am the kind of person they want nowhere near their loathsome party and I will comply with that request.

I have the option of Plaid, so it might be them, or spunking cock.

I like Plaid. Or at least I did when Leanne Wood was in charge. I loved her anti-royalist, socialist attitude.

Oh I should add I would definitely vote for Labour if I like in Streatham as Bell Ribeiro Addy is an absolute star.

 

[sleaterkinney]

But they were planning to before Labour did, and were only prevented from implementing their version (admittedly a less radical one in its initial form) by an election. So why was that? You keep calling this magical thinking, but the Tories repeatedly did things you suggest could only happen under Labour throughout the middle part of the 20th century. House building, extensions to the welfare state, a relatively high tax burden on the rich, labour rights, acceptance of the post-war consensus etc etc. In fact they were more left economically than the current Labour Party right up to the advent of Thatcher. Why?

It's magical in the sense that that environment doesn't exist any more and hasn't for a long time. That paper is from 78 years ago.

 

[A380]

Struggle is a process not a single point.
The struggle of workers over many years resulted in welfare states internationally, sometimes delivered by centre-left governments, sometimes by centre-right governments. But it was the strength of the workers that ensured they got the gains they did not the benign actions of centre-left parties.

But even if the LP (or its equivalent) is the key to the mechanism of delivery, that does not mean that one needs to vote Labour under any and all circumstances.
It is perfectly logical to see the LP as one, or even the best, way of delivering gains for the working class and see a vote for it under the current circumstances as a bad tactical decision.

You always go on about 'revolutionaries' and 'purity' but the only people to show any 'purity' on this thread are those like you that insist that people must vote Labour, that anything else is support ingthe Tories.
Most of the people on this thread are not revolutionaries, most would consider voting Labour under the correct circumstances, many did vote Labour under Corbyn.

In England in 2024 under the existing system then if you vote anything but Labour or don’t vote you are supporting the Tories ( or their yellow scum former allies) . Now that isn’t pleasant and mat be unpalatable and definitely should not be the case; but it is true.

 

[kenny g]

In England in 2024 under the existing system then if you vote anything but Labour or don’t vote you are supporting the Tories ( or their yellow scum former allies) . Now that isn’t pleasant and mat be unpalatable and definitely should not be the case; but it is true.

Unless you live in Brighton. I would never vote Green on principle

 

[Pickman's model]

I like Plaid. Or at least I did when Leanne Wood was in charge. I loved her anti-royalist, socialist attitude.

Oh I should add I would definitely vote for Labour if I like in Streatham as Bell Ribeiro Addy is an absolute star.

Just the other 642 are wankers then

 

[SpookyFrank]

I don't think anyone knows this for sure at this point. I understand he's got a good track record and has earned the benefit of the doubt.

His track record is of doing the exact opposite of everything he said he'd do. Paints himself as an activist lawyer when he presided over the rigged prosecutions of activists. Calls himself a warrior against antisemitism then expels Jews for having the wrong opinions. Promises to restore local party democracy then parachutes his lickspittles into every constituency he can. Promises to unite Labour's factions, then spends his entire tenure as leader using every trick in the book to silence or purge leftist MPs and party members.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I wonder how much of each response is coloured by the dynamics of the constituency they live in?

So if folk like in a rock solid lab or Tory seat,do they feel less need to compromise than those who live in much more swing/marginal seats?

I live in a safe-ish labour seat. The (pretty good) sitting MP is retiring but he's backed Starmer all the way so fuck him anyway. His replacement is some nothing creature from London, chosen by party HQ, so fuck him as well.

 

[Cloo]

Probably, unless the Lib Dems stand a character who is enough of a local hero to maybe beat the Tories here.

I'm pissed off at Labour for being Tory lite and for going along with the Tory's totally fallacious narrative (that immigration, 'woke' culture and 'no one wants to work anymore' are our problems and not aging demographic, climate change, and that we still haven't economically caught up with the fact we're not a manufacturing culture anymore) but I'll probably vote for them as I think they'll be less damaging to the country than another Tory government. The Conservatives have just thrown everything behind culture wars to cover the fact they literally have nothing to offer people and they've totally spaffed away their reputation as the 'fiscally responsible party' and if they get in again I fear they will move in some even more socially regressive way on things like LGBTQ+ rights, racism, women's rights and particularly worker's rights. I think their ideal is an American-style system with minimum rights, or mandatory holiday or maternity leave and the employer can basically do what they like. Labour is at least less likely to go in that direction.

 

[belboid]

But they were planning to before Labour did, and were only prevented from implementing their version (admittedly a less radical one in its initial form) by an election. So why was that? You keep calling this magical thinking, but the Tories repeatedly did things you suggest could only happen under Labour throughout the middle part of the 20th century. House building, extensions to the welfare state, a relatively high tax burden on the rich, labour rights, acceptance of the post-war consensus etc etc. In fact they were more left economically than the current Labour Party right up to the advent of Thatcher. Why?

Just on the NHS - the tories did indeed propose that people should have access to a health service anywhere in the nation, but it was an incredibly different alternative, based on hundreds of local area providers, patient choice being key, and totally open to private operation (including charging). Totally different beast.

 

[Rimbaud]

Live in a very safe Labour seat so I'll probably vote Green as the only leftish option. If I lived in a swing seat though I might consider it, just because I dread to think what the country will be like by 2030 if the Tories win again. Labour might not be much better but you never know, can't be much worse.

 

[redsquirrel]

In England in 2024 under the existing system then if you vote anything but Labour or don’t vote you are supporting the Tories ( or their yellow scum former allies) . Now that isn’t pleasant and mat be unpalatable and definitely should not be the case; but it is true.

By true you mean your ideological option (presumably one of the occasions where ideological purity is fine, indeed to be cherished).

And what about voting Labour? If I vote for Rachel Reeves am I not supporting attacks on benefit claimants? In 2015 were Labour voters not supporting austerity? Are Labour voters in Coventry not supporting a party that uses scab labour to undermine workers?

EDIT: And what about Labour members? You were donating money (and time?) to the Labour Party in 2015 so were you supporting austerity?

 

[Humberto]

I don't trust him at all.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Yes. Right now I’ll take ever so slightly less Tory, over full Tory.

I just can’t bear the thought of another 5 years of the current cunts. Even if the next lot are cunts, at least they’re different cunts.

It’s shit.

 

[Ax^]

as the poll shows what the alternative

no angle in this just 59% of people not voting is a wary kind of statistic

as always fuck the tories

 

[bimble]

I'll probably turn up and vote for whoever is on the paper who isn't the incumbent absolute arsewipe. An independent or hopeless case if there are any on offer, probably not out here.
Not that it'll change anything, same stupid donkey with blue rosette will get re-elected, but voting Not Him is better imo (here & for me) than just not showing up. I

 

[A380]

But true you mean your ideological option (presumably one of the occasions where ideological purity is fine, indeed to be cherished).

And what about voting Labour? If I vote for Rachel Reeves am I not supporting attacks on benefit claimants? In 2015 were Labour voters not supporting austerity? Are Labour voters in Coventry not supporting a party that uses scab labour to undermine workers?

And your point is? If there were a pure platonic socialist party with a chance of obtaining executive power I’d vote for it. But such a party doesn’t exist at all. I’ll go for the slightest whisker of improvement for people over and above what they get from the executive arm of international capital.

You don’t agree, that’s fine; stay above the fray in your ivory tower. At least you’ll be able to proudly tell your grandchildren you never compromised or wavered from the one true way.

 

[redsquirrel]

And your point is? If there were a pure platonic socialist party with a chance of obtaining executive power I’d vote for it. But such a party doesn’t exist at all. I’ll go for the slightest whisker of improvement for people over and above what they get from the executive arm of international capital.

You don’t agree, that’s fine; stay above the fray in your ivory tower. At least you’ll be able to proudly tell your grandchildren you never compromised or wavered from the one true way.

Pitiful. Absolutely pitiful.

You're insisting that anything other than voting Labour is supporting the Tories, and that the Labour Party regardless of its politics, regardless of the local (or indeed national) situation MUST be voted for.
But it is the rest of us - who are happy to comprise, to vote for a LP candidate that is a good sort, to vote Labour in a swing seat, tol vote Labour if it just gives us something - that are the purists, the ones in ivory towers.

Nevermind all those non-voters, Green voters, voters of various left groups that spend their time and energy organising in workplaces and communities against austerity - they do not vote Labour in any and all circumstances so they are actually Tory supporters. And you have the nerve to pretend that it's others that have a childish, idealistic politics.

 

[Ax^]

hmm tries to find that post when someone called me a cunt for voting lib dem whilst living in twickenham

 

[Funky_monks]

I've got the choice of Green (incumbent) or Tory in the toriest part of Herefordshire, so I'll vote Green.

 

[planetgeli]

hmm tries to find that post when someone called me a cunt for voting lib dem whilst living in twickenham

Cunt.

Hth

 

[kabbes]

I’ll go for the slightest whisker of improvement for people over and above what they get from the executive arm of international capital.

This is the bit that keeps being stated as if it is a law of the universe rather than unsupported faith. Where is the evidence that Starmer’s party will actually actually provide a slightest whisker of improvement for people?

 

[The39thStep]

In England in 2024 under the existing system then if you vote anything but Labour or don’t vote you are supporting the Tories ( or their yellow scum former allies) . Now that isn’t pleasant and mat be unpalatable and definitely should not be the case; but it is true.

If you don’t vote Labour you are a class traitor .

 

[Sue]

If you don’t vote Labour you are a class traitor .

This politics thing is nice and simple.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

as far as this year's local elections are concerned, no.

fairly safe lib-dem ward here, used to vary between two tories and one lib dem and vice versa, but has been 3 LD's for a while now (council here is the sort of council where one councillor is elected at a time, so there's local elections 3 years out of 4 here) and labour a fairly distant 3rd. council is now lib-dem minority administration with labour support.

have decided not to vote this time in response to the voter suppression (i have photo ID but bollocks to it)

other than the pointless police commissioner elections, think this will be the first time i've not voted.

not really sure what i'll do when the general election comes. if i'm still living here, it's a fairly safe tory seat, labour did overtake LD's to second in 2015 and 2017, LD's back to second (with candidate being a remainer ex tory MP for the neighbouring constituency) in 2019 (constituency here had voted remain, with a very brexity tory MP.)

can see some attraction in voting for a bunch of tory cunts led by starmer even if only to get rid of the current bunch of far-right cunts, but very little enthusiasm. not sure i could bring myself to vote for a yellow vermin candidate even if they stood a reasonable chance of unseating the vermin candidate.

as i've said a few times, the blairites take a positive poll / election result as showing they have done the correct thing in getting more right wing, and a negative poll / election result as showing they haven't moved right wing enough, so there isn't a right answer.

 

[mx wcfc]

I've said I will vote for the candidate most likely to get rid of my tory MP. That means LibDem here.

My justification doing that is simple.
If the tories get a HoC majority at the next election, they will treat it as a mandate to double down on all the shit they have been getting up to so far, ie an acceleration of NHS privatisation and other parts of the public sector, giving free reign to water companies and other polluters, more clamping down on the right to demonstrate, driving down public sector wages, more attacks on asylum seekers. They will go to town on us. Anything other than a Labour victory will be disastrous

I'm not saying Starmer will be much better, but we have to stop the tories getting back in.

 

[Orang Utan]

Willingly, at a local level
Reluctantly, at a national level and more based on voting record than party allegiance. Though the last lot of abstentions from fundamental issues have made me me think very hard about who I vote for at the next general election

 

[A380]

If you don’t vote Labour you are a class traitor .

I wouldn’t say that.