Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Henry Kissinger is dead (30/11/2023)

This isn't even a joke, from the NYT obit:
View attachment 402351

Well, maybe try working on that so that next time you might be able to restrain yourself before pissing your Eeyore shtick all over a thread?
Once again, the vast majority tickle each others' tummies with reassuring sentiments but get upset over a slightly different viewpoint.
 
Several years back, I read Ariel Dorfman's memoir, Heading South, Looking North, and typed out a few bits that stuck in my head. Here's one of them that feels partiuclarly appropriate:

…it was another kind of success that stirred in Juan when he spoke to me about that time: the Chilean revolution had given him a chance to prove his dignity as a full human being, had dared to conceive through him and millions of others the pale possibility of a world where things did not have to be the way they had always been.
That is why the rulers of the world had reacted with such ferocity.
And Juan understood this and explained it to me with chilling simplicity that day as we crossed the city of Santiago on our way to exile.
“We are paying,” he told me, gesturing toward the streets filled with subdued citizens and rampant military patrols, in the general direction of the factory that was at that very moment being returned to the owner, who had come back to exercise his dominion. “We are being punished. We are paying for our joy.”
He understood that General Pinochet’s military coup was meant to return to their previous owners the levers of economic and political power. But it was just as clear to him that the counterrevolution was conceived as an admonitory lesson for those who had surfaced from the depths of anonymity and set themselves squarely in the middle of a history which was not supposed to belong to them.
His body and the body of all our compañeros were, ultimately, being disciplined for an act of the imagination. Pinochet was trying to make him and millions like him admit that they had been mistaken - not so much in their tactics as in their human strategy, the very rebellion itself, the fact that they had dared to dream of an alternative to the life charted out for them since before their birth.
Pinochet was preparing the world as know it now, more than twenty years later, where the word revolution has been relegated to ads for jogging shoes and greed has been proclaimed as good and profits have become the only basis to judge value and cynicism is the prevailing attitude and amnesia is vaunted and justified as the solution to all the pain of the past...


Wasn’t that the ultimate message that the black hole of that balcony was sending me? Wasn’t that the real blindness - not our incapacity to see the signs of death on the wall, not our eyes shut to our own limitations and blunders, but the more virulent blindness to where the sorry planet was going? That Allende’s revolution, rather than being the wave of the future, was the last gasp of a past that was dying, that the coming twenty years would confirm that we had been swimming against the tide of world history, that General Augusto Pinochet’s coup was inevitable, even if we had been immaculately blameless, even if we had not made even one of our innumerable miscalculations, because we were the dinosaurs, we were the ones buried in the past, we were the ones who wanted to resist globalization, we were the ones who wanted to base our lives on something other than neoliberal competition and individualism, we were the ones who did not see what humanity really was and really wanted.
Isn’t that what Juan was being taught?
Never to dream himself as an alternative?
And yet, no matter how many mistakes he had made, we had made, we did not deserve that balcony at La Moneda, the black hole in that balcony which threatened to engulf us all.
I was not willing then, in that van, and I am not willing now, so many years later, to tell Juan that his joy was unreal.
That was the limit of how much I was willing to change.
Don’t get me wrong: I have, of course, been enormously transformed since the day I stood under Allende’s balcony and saw myself as the channel for all the suppressed voices of the universe, and they are changes I celebrate, changes I needed to learn from history.
But I do not repent of having been that person.
Am I deluding myself one more time? Am I defending that past because I do not dare to cut myself loose, because I fear for the continuity of my identity if I let go of that period in my life when I found a home against death? Is this the last stand of my imagination as it tries to fool that death which came to visit me so early in childhood and has never left?
Perhaps.
If so, if this is one more attempt to imagine the future as it does not and cannot ever exist, so be it. This is the bedrock of who I am: a man who cannot live in the world unless he believes there is hope.
 
One more bit from Dorfman:

One more story.
In the voyages that were to come, that still awaited me, I met a woman who had been tortured in Chile.
What saved her at the worst moments, she told me, was her unending repetition of some lines by Neruda or Machado - strange, she couldn’t remember the authors or the lines themselves anymore - verses that contained water in them, trees, she thought, something about the wind. What matters is that she concentrated on them fiercely so she could make clear to herself over and over how different she was from the men who were making her suffer. She discovered that, inside her, beyond those hands and what they were doing to her, there was a space all her own which could remain intact. One small zone in the world that she could keep from them. Some dead poet was providing her with this shield, with this guardian angel of language. As she silently repeated those words to herself, she expected to be extinguished forever.
Who can doubt that at this very moment, in this abominable world where General Pinochet is alive and Allende is dead, there are many others just like her, anonymous, unknown people, enduring other attempts to obliterate them, suck them into the black hole of history? Perhaps they will not survive, as she did, to tell the tale. But perhaps they are also sending us messages. We cannot be sure.
We can only answer those words as if they are being transmitted.
We do know that the woman, even if there was nobody there, was hoping to be heard. Not only by herself. And what she was saying was simple. She was not willing, even if nobody was listening, even if her fate was to disappear from the face of the earth, to be treated like an object. She was not willing to let others narrate her life and her death.
While there is one person like her in the world, I will find myself defending both her right to struggle and our obligation to remember.
What more can I say?

Ariel Dorfman is still alive today, unlike both Pinochet and Kissinger.
 
Chile was a democracy. Kissinger was complicit in the overthrow of democracy in Chile. Many concluded that events in Chile demonstrated that there could be no peaceful road to socialism.

Now you have justified the rape, torture, and murder of thousands of ordinary working class people you can piss off.
It is possible likesfish was just being ironic?
 
Don't really see why the numbers matter when the intolerable system just rolls on anyway. It isn't like one war criminal is better than another just because one of them is responsible for fewer deaths. I know that isn't exactly what you're saying, but it's what's implied by this kind of thinking.

You fucking love war criminals though don't you.
 
RD2003 is a product of the Urban75 system, so you can't really hold him responsible for being the miserable old wannabe Quisling that he is.
Throw in an accusation of anti-Russian racism as well, Timmy. Might as well.
 
Anyway, another aspect of all this is that, while Kissinger was a product of the system, which would have behaved the same way had he never have been born, he was a cynical, ruthless pragmatist. He could probably have served any regime in exactly the same way had he been born in a different time and place. It could be argued, however, that the neocons who still guide US foreign policy are worse in that they actually believe that their wars of intervention, with all the resulting carnage, are acts of liberation, and will ultimately result in a world of 'democracy,' peace and prosperity.
 
Anyway, another aspect of all this is that, while Kissinger was a product of the system, which would have behaved the same way had he never have been born, he was a cynical, ruthless pragmatist. He could probably have served any regime in exactly the same way had he been born in a different time and place. It could be argued, however, that the neocons who still guide US foreign policy are worse in that they actually believe that their wars of intervention, with all the resulting carnage, are acts of liberation, and will ultimately result in a world of 'democracy,' peace and prosperity.
"No one makes history, it's all just stuff that would happen anyway"

Old Uncle Karl would laugh in your face at your ignorance.
 
"No one makes history, it's all just stuff that would happen anyway"

Old Uncle Karl would laugh in your face at your ignorance.
Where do I say people don't make history. Who do you imagine I think makes history? God?
 
Anyway, another aspect of all this is that, while Kissinger was a product of the system, which would have behaved the same way had he never have been born, he was a cynical, ruthless pragmatist. He could probably have served any regime in exactly the same way had he been born in a different time and place. It could be argued, however, that the neocons who still guide US foreign policy are worse in that they actually believe that their wars of intervention, with all the resulting carnage, are acts of liberation, and will ultimately result in a world of 'democracy,' peace and prosperity.

Not a "world" of such delights. The neo-cons are only interested in the peace and prosperity of one nation.
 
'He overthrew governments and bombed children.' So did his predecessors and his successors. This is going on now and won't end. What's the big deal about Kissinger?

Perhaps it's the scale of his crimes, but if it hadn't been him somebody else would have done it.

Even small children are told by their parents that just because the other kids are doing something doesn't mean that its ok for you to do it. Congratulations, you're lacking the moral education of the average three-year-old.
 
Even small children are told by their parents that just because the other kids are doing something doesn't mean that its ok for you to do it. Congratulations, you're lacking the moral education of the average three-year-old.
I think he isnt saying its ok, just that it happens..its called reality ...y'know the stuff that happens whether or not you like it.
The fucking virtue signalling in here gets really boring
 
%2Fmethode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F958ac299-7e12-425b-bf05-59052599b0ae.jpg

(Source: The Times, 1 Decemeber 2023)
 
I think he isnt saying its ok, just that it happens..its called reality ...y'know the stuff that happens whether or not you like it.
The fucking virtue signalling in here gets really boring
Lletsa, dwyer and you get really boring, you antisemitic, misogynist, homophobic dope.
 
Even small children are told by their parents that just because the other kids are doing something doesn't mean that its ok for you to do it. Congratulations, you're lacking the moral education of the average three-year-old.
Lletsa has been doing this defeatism propaganda for decades. Chipping away at resistance, whispering into our ears that there's nothing we can do, that we are inconsequential and our voices don't matter.

He'd love it if there was no justice, no protest, no demos, and if all enemies of tyranny just laid down and let the tanks roll over them.

No idea why he begged to be let back on urban, given his disdain for it, its ethos and excellent tradition of passionate resistance.
 
Back
Top Bottom