Heathrow 3rd runway: yay or nay

[Teaboy]

What I still don't understand is why? I know he's a billionaire Dave Angel, but for Cable and Greening, a third runway will mean fewer flights over their turf, at least for the first decade or so and after that there won't be more flights as we're told the existing runways are already at 99% capacity...

Well there is the general air quality thing. I think its more just the whole Heathrow situation is toxic and there is zero trust in anything the airport says, and because they have consistently taken the piss the view is that anything and everything must be opposed. No one round here believes a word of what they say so the assumption is that the next thing will be night flights (they happen anyway) and the compensation will never materialise.

I don't think anybody would get elected round here without being very anti Heathrow. We should start a wager to guess to the nearest billion how much this totally privately funded expansion is going to cost the taxpayer. I'm going to go with double figures, maybe 13 - 15 billion.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm presuming there would be more flights once the third runway gets go ahead, so how does it mean fewer flights over Richmond? Planes will be approaching from a different angle?

Currently only planes using the southern runway go over Richmond & Putney, the third runway will be to the north of the northern one, so won't impact these places at all...

 

[Teaboy]

red leader calling Spymaster

come in Spymaster

**checks watch**

**checks weather**

Conclusion: pub.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I don't think anybody would get elected round here without being very anti Heathrow.

When I lived in Whitton about 80% of people I knew either worked at the airport or in a business directly related to it...

 

[Pickman's model]

**checks watch**

**checks weather**

Conclusion: pub.

*checks time*

*checks under table*

 

[skyscraper101]

Currently only planes using the southern runway go over Richmond & Putney, the third runway will be to the north of the northern one, so won't impact these places at all...

I thought they all use the same approach path? But maybe I'm wrong. Anything that reduces noise over my house will be appreciated (Barnes, just inside Zac territory )

 

[Teaboy]

I thought they all use the same approach path? But maybe I'm wrong. Anything that reduces noise over my house will be appreciated (Barnes, just inside Zac territory )

2 runways = 4 approaches. They have in the past played about with the routes, if you listen carefully you can still hear the howls from Virginia Water when they ran a trial 5 or so years back.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I thought they all use the same approach path? But maybe I'm wrong. Anything that reduces noise over my house will be appreciated (Barnes, just inside Zac territory )

The ones for the northern runway are close, but are to the north, still just within LBRUT:



To get to a runway even further north will be well north of Barnes.

 

[2hats]

2 runways = 4 approaches. They have in the past played about with the routes, if you listen carefully you can still hear the howls from Virginia Water when they ran a trial 5 or so years back.

Typical arrivals (red) from the east and departures (green) to the west:

Typical arrivals (red) from the west and departures (green) to the east:

 

[Teaboy]

When I lived in Whitton about 80% of people I knew either worked at the airport or in a business directly related to it...

Whitton is pretty small though and its demographics are changing rapidly.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Whitton is pretty small though and its demographics are changing rapidly.

Have also lived in Twickenham, Housnlow and Heston. A while ago, but again a lot of people are there specifically cos of the airport...

 

[Teaboy]

have also lived in Twickenham, Housnlow and Heston. A while ago, but again a lot of people are there specifically cos of the airport...

I'm yet to meet anyone in Twickenham who works at the airport. Its bloody expensive here and actually a pain to get to Heathrow by public transport. As I say demographics are changing all the time, Hounslow and Heston would still be the same I imagine.

Thinking about it, beyond the odd pilot in the 8 years I've lived in this area I've never met anyone who works at the airport.

 

[tim]

I'm yet to meet anyone in Twickenham who works at the airport. Its bloody expensive here and actually a pain to get to Heathrow by public transport. As I say demographics are changing all the time, Hounslow and Heston would still be the same I imagine.

Thinking about it, beyond the odd pilot in the 8 years I've lived in this area I've never met anyone who works at the airport.

Twickenham's always been posh

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm yet to meet anyone in Twickenham who works at the airport. Its bloody expensive here and actually a pain to get to Heathrow by public transport. As I say demographics are changing all the time, Hounslow and Heston would still be the same I imagine.

Thinking about it, beyond the odd pilot in the 8 years I've lived in this area I've never met anyone who works at the airport.

Lived in Grosvenor Road and my neighbour was a freight forwarder, but yeah, Whitton had a lot more airline staff, check in, air stewards etc., very large gay scene with those who didn't work at the airport attracted to the area cos of so many gay men who do. Recently went back to Whitton and it has changed. I moved away when I no longer needed to live close to the airport. Went to a BBQ in Shepperton 2 weeks ago, the noise of the planes taking off overhead was a real shock, never noticed it for the first 30 years of my life...

 

[Maggot]

We do not need any more runways. We are having enough trouble meeting the Paris Agreement on climate change as it is without adding more flights to the mix.

We do not need to increase capacity, we need to reduce demand. As over 70% of flights are taken by 15% of people, the best way to do this is to tax frequent flyers.

If a frequent flyer tax was brought in, we wouldn't need any more capacity.

A Free Ride - Campaign for a fairer, greener tax on air travel

 

[cupid_stunt]

Lucky places that aren't London aren't in any need of investment in transport infrastructure eh?

The theory that this is somehow for the whole country in that Heathrow is the country's hub is indeed laughably shit.

The strange thing here, is that it looks like the SNP is going to support the government on this.

The SNP refused to comment officially but a source said it was “broadly in favour of Heathrow expansion due to the economic benefit it would bring to Scotland”.

Backing would see rare agreement between the UK and Scottish governments, with Scottish Secretary David Mundell describing Mr Grayling’s announcement as “a step forward for Scotland”.

SNP backing may be crucial in vote over third Heathrow runway

 

[Teaboy]

The strange thing here, is that it looks like the SNP is going to support the government on this.



SNP backing may be crucial in vote over third Heathrow runway

They've been a long term supporter of it. I suspect Labour will probably vote it through as well, I can only really see the Lib Dems and Greens being against it. Lets face it, none of the major parties really give a fuck about environmental issues and given every thing that is going on no one is going to want to be seen as 'anti-business' whatever that means.

For the SNP the negative effects are miles away and they will want to be seen as pro-business.

The only reason is wasn't waived through years ago is because Cameron came out against it when he was desperate to win and the tories have a several key marginals under it.

 

[kebabking]

Twickenham's always been posh

Depends on your definition of posh...

 

[tim]

Depends on your definition of posh...

I come from Hounslow, even people in Osterley- the posh bit of Hounslow, think Twickenham is posh.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The strange thing here, is that it looks like the SNP is going to support the government on this.



SNP backing may be crucial in vote over third Heathrow runway

Until the day Heathrow is in Scotland I reckon they should probably stfu tbh.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The 'hub' argument is absurd. If Mr Yang from Beijing needs to get to a meeting in Gothenburg, what possible difference could it make to the ordinary British punter if he changes planes in Heathrow or Frankfurt?

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Don't forget this was all agreed by Labour nearly 10 years ago. If it landed on your desk as a minister you'd back Heathrow for the simple reason it's in the right place. As for air pollution and CO2 emissions it's all messed up so you ought to reject it.

The caveat being Heathrow has always been in the wrong place from the start but it is what it is.


Therefore will it ever happen???

 

[MickiQ]

I live 170 miles away and I've never even flown from Heathrow so I'm fairly dispassionate about it, but I always thought that it was going to be the inevitable choice, it's the option that can be delivered quickest and cheapest and it has the massive advantage of already being there in the place where all these projected travellers actually want to go.
The fascinating thing for me over these past few years has been watching politicians loudly touting their pro-business credentials whilst at the same time desperately trying to avoid making the decision that business demands they make since they feared the electoral consequences of it.
The longer they kicked the can down the road, the more inevitable Heathrow expansion became, all the other options should have been started years ago.

 

[Teaboy]

I live 170 miles away and I've never even flown from Heathrow so I'm fairly dispassionate about it, but I always thought that it was going to be the inevitable choice, it's the option that can be delivered quickest and cheapest

To be clear, it is neither of these things. If you set aside Luton, Heathrow is the most expensive and most difficult to deliver option for expansion in the South East by a country mile.

For starters they are going to have to re-route Britain's busiest motorway which will obviously be funded by us not the Spanish companies that stand to benefit from all this. Secondly they are knocking down an entire village with all the compulsory purchases at London rates that entails and the compensation alone is eye watering. Add to all this the amount of local opposition (a lot of which has deep pockets) which will mean this will be knee deep in legal objections for years to come. Another great day for m'learned friends.

As I work in construction it would be great for me and my company, Terminal 5 was a goldmine for us. I've said all the way along though, I still think I'll be retired before a shovel goes in the ground for the third runway and I'm only 40.

 

[krtek a houby]

Feel sorry for those who live near and on the flight path. Could so easily have been us.

 

[Teaboy]

Feel sorry for those who live near and on the flight path. Could so easily have been us.

He giveth with one hand and taketh with the other.

All those people living in Hanwell and the like crowing about Crossrail and property prices might have a rude awakening soon.

 

[krtek a houby]

He giveth with one hand and taketh with the other.

All those people living in Hanwell and the like crowing about Crossrail and property prices might have a rude awakening soon.

Yup. Not to engage in schadenfreude, of course. Yes, it's great for job creation in the short term but...

 

[Maggot]

Why are you all accepting the fallacy that we need to increase capacity?

Only 12% of flights are made for business purposes, and business flights are declining. The idea that not increasing capacity is bad for business is just not true.

 

[Teaboy]

Why are you all accepting the fallacy that we need to increase capacity?

Only 12% of flights are made for business purposes, and business flights are declining. The idea that not increasing capacity is bad for business is just not true.

I'm not. Just merely pointing out that if you wanted to expand Heathrow is the worst choice by virtually every measure.

One of the things that came out of the review is that whilst Heathrow is at capacity all the other 'London' airports are operating at around 50%. There is no need for expansion in my view. Particularly as HS2 is going to wizz past Birmingham international as well.

 

[2hats]

Particularly as HS2 is going to wizz past Birmingham international as well.

Completely missed opportunity (assuming HS2 gets built and additional airport capacity is really needed).