Harry Roberts has been freed

[Citizen66]

a turkish lira gets ten that dwyer will force a rerun

I'll take the bet. spymaster will get there first (despite disingenuously claiming he doesn't want to). He thrives on it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'll take the bet. spymaster will get there first (despite disingenuously claiming he doesn't want to). He thrives on it.

yeh but dwyer will do the forcing: he is the power behind the spymaster.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

It's the same argument for killing the bastard!

I'll do it later if you like but I'm up to my eyes in a VAT return at the moment.

Briefly, my argument is that there should be an equivalence in justice. The punishment should fit the crime and if you're not going to kill him then he should be incarcerated until his death. He has denied the freedom to his victims that we are now proposing to give him.


(my strike)

I don't see this as a good thing.

You think killing someone is a bad thing and then you say that you should do the same bad thing or its equivalent? At best it's a mixed message at worst it devalues life and ups the anti for would be criminals.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Idris2002]

The late lamented Tobyjug once commented that he would have been happy to pull the lever that dropped the condemned man through the trapdoor, sending him to the big courtroom in the sky. Think about that for a moment.

 

[Spymaster]

You think killing someone is a bad thing and then you say that you should do the same bad thing or its equivalent?

Well I do say that but that's not what we're debating here, unless you're arguing that incarcerating someone for life is equivalent to killing them. Which would be strange.

 

[Pickman's model]

The late lamented Tobyjug once commented that he would have been happy to pull the lever that dropped the condemned man through the trapdoor, sending him to the big courtroom in the sky. Think about that for a moment.

tbh it depends who the condemned man is. i'm sure many people here would be happy to pull the lever if it had been e.g. thatcher or reagan.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

The late lamented Tobyjug once commented that he would have been happy to pull the lever that dropped the condemned man through the trapdoor, sending him to the big courtroom in the sky. Think about that for a moment.

The internet has proven itself to be a great space for people to feel free to indulge in their fantasies no matter how inhuman or banal.

Cheers - Louis (pretending to be a poet) MacNeice

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Well I do say that, but that's not what we're debating here, unless you're arguing that incarcerating someone for life is equivalent to killing them. Which would be strange.

You are the one who suggested an equivalence: 'The punishment should fit the crime and if you're not going to kill him then he should be incarcerated until his death.'

So why are two bad things - deaths or death sentences (even if deferred) - better than one bad thing?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Citizen66]

yeh but dwyer will do the forcing: he is the power behind the spymaster.

You'll have to wait until I'm next at a bureau de change then.

 

[Pickman's model]

You'll have to wait until I'm next at a bureau de change then.

i can wait.

 

[Idris2002]

tbh it depends who the condemned man is. i'm sure many people here would be happy to pull the lever if it had been e.g. thatcher or reagan.

Or the bold Jugster himself (I jest of course).

 

[Pickman's model]

Or the bold Jugster himself (I jest of course).

i don't

 

[telbert]

I think he was an NCO in the Army, and I read somewhere that he was fortunate not to have been hanged in the late fifties for another death at his hands.
Thoroughly nasty piece of work, McVicar and Reggie Kray say Roberts was proud of all his killings and never showed any remorse.
I vaguely remember the shootings and the hunt for him, I was about nine years old but I well remember his capture, because I had to ask my dad what he meant saying when he heard that Roberts had been caught.
''I bet he falls down the steps at the station a few dozen times tonight''.

My dad served with him in Malaysia and i think Kenya also .Same regiment.Says he was nice enough to him but there were stories of him being a nasty bully cunt to blokes when he thought he could get away with it.George Davis on the other hand was a thoroughly decent bloke though apparently.

 

[Citizen66]

Or the bold Jugster himself (I jest of course).

Many a true word etc

 

[Idris2002]

Many a true word etc

Out of the mouths of babes, and so on.

 

[Spymaster]

You are the one who suggested an equivalence: 'The punishment should fit the crime and if you're not going to kill him then he should be incarcerated until his death.'

So why are two bad things - deaths or death sentences (even if deferred) - better than one bad thing?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Put aside, for now, my support for CP. I'm arguing that Roberts should not be released.

Keeping him in chokey until he dies is as just as the law allows, imo. He should never be allowed the freedom which he denied his victims.

Releasing him on some nebulous notion that it makes "we as society" better than him is a nonsense. "We as society" (your term) are better than him anyway. No need to try to prove that.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Put aside, for now, my support for CP. I'm arguing that Roberts should not be released.

Keeping him in chokey until he dies is as just as the law allows, imo.

He should never be allowed the freedom which he denied his victims.

Releasing him out of some nebulous notion that it makes "we as society" better than him is a nonsense. "We as society" are better than him anyway. No need to try to prove that.

Depriving someone of their life (which is actually what you want to do...imprisonment is a stand in for that desire) is what 'we as a society' abhor in Roberts; you are asking us to act in a similarly abhorrent manner. That is why not doing it makes us better.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Citizen66]

The state regularly kills people by the hundred thousand to serve the interests of a small elite left untroubled by incarceration. There's plenty of forgiveness given there but Harry Roberts should swing. The right are all in a muddle over this shit.

 

[Spymaster]

Depriving someone of their life (which is actually what you want to do...imprisonment is a stand in for that desire) is what 'we as a society' abhor in Roberts;

No it's not. It's the circumstances in which he killed that we abhor. Killing can be justified.

you are asking us to act in a similarly abhorrent manner.

I don't accept that maintaining his incarceration would be even closely "similarly abhorrent" to the murders that he committed.

 

[Citizen66]

He was protecting his interests. I don't like barbarism but his jailers are hypocritical fuckers.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

No it's not. It's the circumstances in which he killed that we abhor. Killing can be justified.



I don't accept that maintaining his incarceration would be even closely "similarly abhorrent" to the murders that he committed.

You're just jealous that he's a better shot than you.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

No it's not. It's the circumstances in which he killed that we abhor. Killing can be justified.



I don't accept that maintaining his incarceration would be even closely "similarly abhorrent" to the murders that he committed.

1. We abhor the killing; the circumstances (e.g. self defense) may or not allow us to overcome that abhorrence. The taking of life is the fundamentally repellent act.

2. Of course you don't accept that an entire life inside is a death sentence; you want the real thing.

Louis MacNeice

 

[Spymaster]

You're just jealous that he's a better shot than you.

It's easy from point blank.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's easy from point blank.

Wasn't point blank though, in spite of your attempt to smear Harry's good name. Look up what really happened

 

[Louis MacNeice]

It's easy from point blank.

I think for most people it probably wouldn't be.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[tony heath]

Maybe he's being let out under special conditions that he goes to Switzerland on a one way ticket, that would make everyone happy. Not sure what Harry's exact thoughts are on capital punishment, murder, euthanasia and war are.

 

[Citizen66]

In a hierarchy it's ok for some people to kill, but not others. What makes this crime so heinous in the eyes of the daily mail and its readers is that three people who serve the highest level of hierarchy were slain by someone at the lowest level. That sort of shit scares them.

 

[Citizen66]

Like when Harry Roberts was killing Commies on behalf of the state it was fine. When he used those same skills taught by the state (and following the state's dog eat dog modus operandi) against the state it wasn't fine. I'll probably get shot down on flames for this but.. oh shit.. the ironing.

 

[Spymaster]

Look up what really happened

I've read a lot about it over the years. Happy to read more if you chuck us a link.

 

[Spymaster]

1. We abhor the killing; the circumstances (e.g. self defense) may or not allow us to overcome that abhorrence. The taking of life is the fundamentally repellent act.

Not sure if I agree with this or not but ok. I and many others I'm sure, could've overcome the abhorrence of dropping Harry through a trapdoor all those years ago. As it is we don't need to. We're talking about keeping him in prison so the point's moot.