Harry Roberts has been freed

[Citizen66]

His threats are pretty damning. Those wanting to scupper his release are unlikely to have known about them.

Not sure why you're defending this piece of dog shit.

I'm not defending him. But surely the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise still applies?

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not defending him. But surely the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise still applies?

Spymaster's always believed in flogging the presumption of innocence. well, in flogging in general.

 

[Ted Striker]

and being a better bettor is always a good thing.

Not as important as a great grater though.

 

[Spymaster]

Why?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Because "as a society", "we" don't need to show that we are "better" than someone who murders young men in cold blood, threatens women who try to help him, and has animals killed and mutilated for revenge.

 

[Pickman's model]

Because "as a society", "we" don't need to show that we are "better" than someone who murders young men in cold blood, threatens women who try to help him, and has animals killed and mutilated for revenge.

you, as an individual, do though.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

and being a better bettor is always a good thing.

Particularly when it comes to spelling!

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[phildwyer]

What about Butcher's post?, it was mentioned on Today this morning about his attacks on animals.

That story looks well dodgy to me. It's from the Mail on Sunday for a start.

 

[Citizen66]

Because "as a society", "we" don't need to show that we are "better" than someone who murders young men in cold blood, threatens women who try to help him, and has animals killed and mutilated for revenge.

Not sure how stitching him up with the parole board was 'helping' him but she didn't deserve what followed for sure.

 

[phildwyer]

it was kept quiet and only reported in the newspapers.

Indeed. And which newspapers?

 

[Pickman's model]

Not sure how stitching him up with the parole board was 'helping' him but she didn't deserve what followed for sure.

nor did the unfortunate animals, if the later events were caused by the earlier ones.

 

[Pickman's model]

Indeed. And which newspapers?

british newspapers

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Because "as a society", "we" don't need to show that we are "better" than someone who murders young men in cold blood, threatens women who try to help him, and has animals killed and mutilated for revenge.

If the alternative is crying for deadly revenge, then yes we do. Otherwise how do we maintain the idea that human life has a special value which we should try to protect? Harry Roberts felt threatened so he kills; we feel threatened by Harry so we kill. Singing from the same hymn sheet doesn't work.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Ax^]

Because "as a society", "we" don't need to show that we are "better" than someone who murders young men in cold blood,

tbf if the police don't have to show that they are better than this why should society play along

 

[Spymaster]

I'm not defending him. But surely the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise still applies?

It would in a court of law. But in the here and now, when the woman has said that he bullied her, constantly threatened her and then her animals started getting butchered; and given the character of the scumbag in the frame, I'm inclined to reach the conclusion that he likely had a hand in it.

 

[phildwyer]

british newspapers

Which one?

(Clue: the one best known for its slavish and not infrequently mendacious adherence to the Met's version of events).

 

[Spymaster]

Not sure how stitching him up with the parole board was 'helping' him but she didn't deserve what followed for sure.

Well if by "stitching him up with the parole board" you mean reporting his bullying behaviour then I suppose you have a point.

Initially she provided him with the facility to work on day release. That's helping him.

 

[phildwyer]

It would in a court of law. But in the here and now, when the woman has said that he bullied her, constantly threatened her and then her animals started getting butchered, and given the character of the scumbag in the frame, I'm inclined to reach the conclusion that he likely had a hand in it.

On the basis of the Mail story alone? Or is there any other confirmation?

 

[JHE]

And why should one assume that he was anything exceptionally vile - the heads were removed after death to facilitate a body count. He's simply posing with them.

In what way are bodies (or heads, for that matter) easier to count after decapitation?

 

[Spymaster]

If the alternative is crying for deadly revenge, then yes we do. Otherwise how do we maintain the idea that human life has a special value which we should try to protect? Harry Roberts felt threatened so he kills; we feel threatened by Harry so we kill. Singing from the same hymn sheet doesn't work.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Well your first post made two statements, the first of which was this:

Releasing Harry Roberts, 78 year old unrepentant 'copper killer' shows that as a society we can be better than a greedy, selfish, violent and fundamentally anti-social individual such as Roberts.

Which is substantially what I was replying to but you seem to have dropped that bit now to concentrate on the call for capital punishment.

I'm happy to have that argument too but it'll have to be later and it's all been said before.

 

[Ted Striker]

Must admit, the whole animal sanctury thing sounds a bit odd - are there any reputable links? After how long do the "almost every day for 4 years" phone calls go on before you consider maybe, just maybe, to take away his ability to use a phone (or punish the shit out of him - including threaten/removal of future parole)? Is my knowledge of prison that distant to what its actually like?!

 

[Citizen66]

Well if by "stitching him up with the parole board" you mean reporting his bullying behaviour then I suppose you have a point.

Initially she provided him with the facility to work on day release. That's helping him.

Free labour. How noble.

 

[Ax^]

Nasty piece of work who isnt remorseful at all frankly him getting out is a bit of a miracle at least he is too decrepit to be much of a threat these days.

oh come on its not like he want to be a professional footballer again

 

[Spymaster]

Free labour. How noble.

Lol

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Well your first post made two statements, the first of which was this:



Which is substantially what I was replying to but you seem to have dropped that bit now to concentrate on the call for capital punishment.

I'm happy to have that argument too but it'll have to be later and it's all been said before.

The first bit still stands; why would you think I've dropped it?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. I do agree that we probably don't need to rerun the capital punishment arguments.

 

[maomao]

In what way are bodies (or heads, for that matter) easier to count after decapitation?

Heads take up less space, are easier to transport to a central location and are easier to arrange in countable shapes. Would have thought that was obvious.

 

[Pickman's model]

The first bit still stands; why would you think I've dropped it?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. I do agree that we probably don't need to rerun the capital punishment arguments.

a turkish lira gets ten that dwyer will force a rerun

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Heads take up less space, are easier to transport to a central location and are easier to arrange in countable shapes. Would have thought that was obvious.

It is obvious but it takes a certain mindset to grasp that obviousness in the tangle of corpses.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Spymaster]

The first bit still stands; why would you think I've dropped it?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Because your second post (the response to mine) excludes it and responds only to the CP aspect.

If the alternative is crying for deadly revenge, then yes we do. Otherwise how do we maintain the idea that human life has a special value which we should try to protect? Harry Roberts felt threatened so he kills; we feel threatened by Harry so we kill. Singing from the same hymn sheet doesn't work.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Ok Spymaster if the response isn't capital punishment then what is it; prison for life? But if Harry isn't a threat then what is the point of keeping him inside? Releasing him shows that we are able to think, to imagine and desire for ourselves as a society, something better than unending punitive retribution.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Spymaster]

Ok Spymaster if the response isn't capital punishment then what is it; prison for life? But if Harry isn't a threat then what is the point of keeping him inside?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

It's the same argument for killing the bastard!

I'll do it later if you like but I'm up to my eyes in a VAT return at the moment.

Briefly, my argument is that there should be an equivalence in justice. The punishment should fit the crime and if you're not going to kill him then he should be incarcerated until his death. He has denied the freedom to his victims that we are now proposing to give him.

Releasing him shows that we are able to think, to imagine and desire for ourselves as a society, something better than unending punitive retribution punishment.

(my strike)

I don't see this as a good thing.