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Greece. The inconvenient referendum...

He's posted them up to reinforce his shaky point that the electorate voted for the shafting they are getting from the tories and not against the massive betrayal that was the nulabour project.

He's the most obvious rightwing troll hereabouts
 
Fuchs66 said:
TBH I fear it will be tough, but the Greeks will find it tougher than most if they vote against the Euro. Despite the wet dreams some of you are having I see them slipping more in the direction of Nationalism and the far right rather than Socialism.
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That is entirely possible. Once and if the neo-liberal hegemony begins to crumble then all bets are off.
 
ExtraRefined said:
Ask the plebs and they'll always vote for less taxation and more spending. So what?
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Article 44 of the Greek constitution requires a supermajority of 180 MP's to call a referendum on fiscal issues, national issues such as are we in the EU only require 151 MP's and since he first raised the issue in June he has got a law through Parliament that he would only require 40% support of the electorate in the referendum to get it to pass.
It's referendums Hitler stylee
 
Backed up by a genuinely pressure free EU decision to hold back £8 billion until the referendum is postponed, papandreou gone and it never to be spoken of again.
 
I doubt it, the referendum completely stiffs Samaras, who is trying to unpick EFSF deal, which the rest of the EU found hard enough to put together in the first place, and even the threat of renegotiation of it costs 8billion EUro a day....
 
gosub said:
Article 44 of the Greek constitution requires a supermajority of 180 MP's to call a referendum on fiscal issues, national issues such as are we in the EU only require 151 MP's and since he first raised the issue in June he has got a law through Parliament that he would only require 40% support of the electorate in the referendum to get it to pass.
It's referendums Hitler stylee
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it is a dead end referendum as well. No matter if you vote yes or no or do not vote as well, Greece will default. If we go ahead on this haircut deal the bigger problem will be experienced by the greek banks and social security companies anyway, because this debt is mainly been haircut, therefore there will be big liquidity problems within the greek banking system. The eurozone will need to give more money in order to capitalize the banks, so in reality nothing changes the debt remains mainly the same but it goes a few years back.

Also As a condition to this haircut "solution" Greece has to appear a positive balance for 2012 and onwards. Therefore Greece must not only manage to erase its deficit but also to have more earnings rather than spendings within a year. But how will this happen when the greek private sector is nearly dead ? When the greek businesses are getting bankrupt and the main greek industries have already migrated to Bulgaria or other eastern europe countries or even to China ? Even if they give money to the businesses who will buy the products that they will sell when the working class in Greece has run out of money ? It is therefore evident that there will be a further attack against the greek working class, with more cuts on wages and pensions more taxes and less public spendings that will result to more poverty and unemployment. This is a part of a bigger plan and as a result of that, Greece will become a country of cheap labor, a heaven for the capitalists in order to invest in Greece and get maximum profit.

If the NO answer means that we default and we get out of the eurozone, the situation for the greek working class may remain the same BUT it is possible that we will deny to repay a big part of the debt and we will be able to control our own currency rather than having Germany and France to dictate us what to do and how to repay our loans. This is why they do not want this scenario at all, we are screwed and everybody knows that, the big deal at this moment is that they do not want their banks to get screwed as well because of us.
 
that's a c&p from the other thread Dimitris. I'd vote vote no, but can see how the in/out EU vote is Papandreou's best shot at getting the public on board for an austerity program as bad as the Germans got at Versailles, which in itself caused Europe a few headaches further down the line...
 
It does indeed look like the latest wheeze is to force Papandreou out, pretend that the word 'referendum' was never mentioned and get a 'Unity' Government elected pledged to remain within the EU (i.e. to adopt the austerity measures required in return for the bail out money).

Yet again the fly in the ointment for the markets and the political class is the growing realisation of the Greek people that whatever the decision they are the massive losers in all of this. As Dimitris says the Greek working class are screwed, the super rich have fled, ahead lies years of 'restructuring' that will see Greece as the low wage centre of Europe. In such circumstances the assumption underpinning neo liberal planning - that the Greek people will always vote to remain in the EU and this is how to dress it up - is surely no longer a foregone conclusion?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
It does indeed look like the latest wheeze is to force Papandreou out, pretend that the word 'referendum' was never mentioned and get a 'Unity' Government elected pledged to remain within the EU (i.e. to adopt the austerity measures required in return for the bail out money).

Yet again the fly in the ointment for the markets and the political class is the growing realisation of the Greek people that whatever the decision they are the massive losers in all of this. As Dimitris says the Greek working class are screwed, the super rich have fled, ahead lies years of 'restructuring' that will see Greece as the low wage centre of Europe. In such circumstances the assumption underpinning neo liberal planning - that the Greek people will always vote to remain in the EU and this is how to dress it up - is surely no longer a foregone conclusion?
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/03/greece-exit-commission-idUSB5E7LN00720111103 they really don't see the need for popular consent
 
Papandreou lost majority and offered resignation. Off to see Greek President. Coalition to be formed. Fresh election 'in a matter of months' (BBC news)
 
Yes I copy and pasted my own post from the other thread as this is what I really believe.

I still believe that the whole thing is a bluff though a well planned one as well. Our minister of economic affairs and vice president of the government mr Venizelos this morning clearly stated that he is against the referendum. Within the day PASOK mps that are close enough to Venizelos started resigning or saying that they will not vote on the confidence vote on Friday. In this way the government falls, Papandreou (prime minister) is quite sure that he will resign and that Venizelos will be the next prime minister. He will ask for a coalition government with other political parties (Samaras the conservatives leader some minutes ago said that he agrees in such a government) and all of them together they will accept the haircut in order the 6th installment of the IMF loan to be given to us.

So within this chaos that has been created the haircut "solution" will be accepted by ALL OF THEM without any negotiations and consequently we will suffer as I said on my previous post up to 2020 at least.

After all that they may go for elections but the new government (which ever may that be) will say that they cannot do anything now because everything is already signed.

This is how "democracies" rule
 
i had an arguement with my mum over this in the car the other day. she was saying that there was no alternative to any of the cuts, (which in greece probably wouldnt be that bad) that there were always gonna be rich people and the only way to stop this would be for greece to have a "communist revolution".

which probably isnt that far from the truth really ...
 
Farage on BBC news stroking off over what's happening and touting for more votes... Hard to see who should be criticised more, the BBC for giving this troll the airtime or him for being an opportunist dirtbag on the scrounge for more votes of the back of the Greeks' misery...
 
butchersapron said:
Yes, no referendum.
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The KKE will be happy then. A KKE MP, Liana Kanelli (sp) was on tv last night condemning the referendum, rather wittily as it's like 'being asked if you want to be killed or to die', and demanding an election. So, so-called revolutionary KKE demanding the return to bourgeous democratic politics and an election.... What then if a pro-austerity government wins?!
 
so what's happening? Some sort of coalition to push through austerity measures nobody voted for? - the ruses johnny foreigner comes up with:rolleyes:
 
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