Let it rest. It's ugly.
Go on... rape her... she won't report it... [UniLad magazine article]
- Thread starter LiamO
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Miss Caphat
I want it that way
agreed, but this is kind of along the same lines of what I'm saying. you can swear up and down that "cunt" has no sexist connotations, but if some people feel that it does, doesn't that mean that it has sexist connotations to them and maybe they're perceiving it that way because of the inherent sexism in society and then does it therefore not make it at least partly true? at least according to their own experience?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
cunt, wanker, arsehole, prick, twat, nob, cock, dick, arse, fanny...
...in descending order.
...in descending order.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
But it's a very different word in the US. That's the problem. Different culture and different meaning attached to the same word.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
Not quite sure what you're getting at. Would it make me some sort of flawed person if I was actually offended by it?
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
no, it really isn't "the problem". I have been on here for over 10 years and have also lived in the UK. believe me, I understand the British connotation.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Male bodyparts are used just as indiscrimately for insult purposes. If they weren't, I'd agree with you. But they are, so I don't.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
You metatarsal, Why don't you take your galling views and shove them right up the cochlea
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
Not particularly. But i wish you'd decide either way.
I have decided, and repeatedly stated that I am not personally offended by the word, but that it's understandable for an individual to be offended by it.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
Plenty of people are offended by it. It certainly isnt something i would say in front of my mum. But they are offended because it is vulgar, not because it is sexist.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
It could be, but it would be silly. These age-old terms are not being used to draw a literal comparison in the way that the much more recently coined usages of 'pussy' or 'gay' are.
The use of sexist terminology has more impact on women than it does on men, of course. But I see absolutely no justification for tolerating sexism towards men as part of some kind of feminist backlash, and I see nothing positive for women in insisting that we can't be insulted but they can. It's about equality, not women getting the chance to be as shitty as men have, historically, been.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
what if your mum thought it was sexist? would you tell her she was wrong?
there is just something that is not getting through here, about the nature of what makes something offensive. It's a conversation that I've seen on here probably 8 gajillion times so I'm really confused as to why it's so unclear this time.
Is it just that it's very late there?
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
yeah but those words are kind of offensive (and again, not trying to BAN them lol)
when I hear "prick" "cock" "dick" etc, it does actually bring to mind generalizations society seems to have about men, that they are often "prick-ish" by their very nature of being men and having penises. maybe it's just me
what if your mum thought it was sexist? would you tell her she was wrong?
there is just something that is not getting through here, about the nature of what makes something offensive. It's a conversation that I've seen on here probably 8 gajillion times so I'm really confused as to why it's so unclear this time.
Is it just that it's very late there?
I dont think i'd ever be in the position of discussing the word with my mum like i am now. She wouldnt have a problem with me calling someone a tit which is just as sexist. Cunt is off bounds because its the most vulgar word in the English vocabulary. Theres an argument i suppose that that in itself is sexist. But as lbj has said, fanny is a relatively mild word. As is tit.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
what I'm getting at is what is actually consciously or unconsciously meant by certain words, especially ones which are specific to male or female genitalia, and why they are so powerful. I admit I agree a big part of it is just saying a naughty word that is naughty just because of its sexual nature, but I also think that the gender specificness of the words we choose does have an additional impact.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
this is how I see it, and feel free to disagree
tit, fanny, pussy, etc fall into one category: that these words describing female body parts are used to convey certain stereotypically negative feminine "traits", such as weakness, ditziness, girly-ness (esp. in a man) etc.
cunt is the darker side of female stereotypes, conveying all kinds of other seemingly incongruous things which I can't even put into words. bitchiness, or extreme stupidity, insanity, worthlessness, something to be feared, hardness, dirtiness, stuff like that.
dick, prick, cock: all seem to mean the same thing, and correspond with stereotypical male "traits". arrogance, thoughtlessness, insensitivity, blind aggression, etc.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
If you could show me that words used for female genitalia were used offensively when words used for male genitalia were not, then I would be able to see your point, but you can't because it doesn't happen. They seem to occur with approximately the same frequency and range of meanings (ie pretty much whatever the speaker wants them to mean in that context). I do not recognise the connotations you have posted above - all those words are used more or less interchangeably.
Compare and contrast the use of words which compare men and women to animals. Women get bitch, dog and cow. Men get ... stud. Help me out here, am I missing something?
If you're going to get all hot and bothered about the use of sexist language, first look at whether there is any evidence of misogyny/misandry in the way that they were coined and are used.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
. I do not recognise the connotations you have posted above - all those words are used more or less interchangeably.
that's fine. so, they really all mean the same thing to you? which would be what?
I thought that's what I was doing
. as I said, that's how they seem to be used, when I hear them. you're free to have your own interpretation. don't really know what you're saying about bitch, dog, cow, and stud. How do you interpret the use of these different animals to convey certain aspects of a male or female? If there is some difference, and you don't feel that those words are used interchangeably, how is that any different than me feeling that dick, cock, and pussy being used specifically to convey different societal assumptions of how males and females behave?
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Maybe it is different in the US, but those words are used interchangeably here, and in a variety of contexts. Twat/tit and cock/dick are more likely to be used to indicate someone being an idiot and cunt or prick to indicate someone being nasty, but that's about it. Cunt is the only one that is also routinely used as an affectionate term without any real connotation at all (eg "ye daft wee cunt").that's fine. so, they really all mean the same thing to you? which would be what?
I thought that's what I was doing
don't really know what you're saying about bitch, dog, cow, and stud. How do you interpret the use of these different animals to convey certain aspects of a male or female? If there is some difference, and you don't feel that those words are used interchangeably, how is that any different than me feeling that dick, cock, and pussy being used specifically to convey different societal assumptions of how males and females behave?
The point about comparisons with animals is that there don't actually seem to be many insults which compare men to animals (I cant think of any - stud is used as a compliment), but rather a lot that compare women to animals. I think if sexist language bothers you, then words that were deliberately coined to apply specifically to one sex and one sex only, and which were and are intended solely to denigrate that sex, and which do not have any counterpart aimed at the other sex, are probably a good place to start.
Crack that one, and then maybe we can start trying to replace the entire cussing lexicon with neutral bodyparts just in case some people insist on taking offence for no apparent reason.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Pretty sure that "pussy" to mean somebody afraid of something comes from "pussy cat" (as, indeed, does the meaning of female body bits). There is a long history of using the cat as an example of something that easily takes fright and stays away from rough-stuff (bit unfair to the cat, but there you go).
I distinctly remember in the 80s people saying "he's such a pussy cat". This later seemed to become pussy.
I stand to be corrected, though. This is speculation on my part.
(Very disappoint at the relatively tedious path this thread has now gone down, but oh well.)
I distinctly remember in the 80s people saying "he's such a pussy cat". This later seemed to become pussy.
I stand to be corrected, though. This is speculation on my part.
(Very disappoint at the relatively tedious path this thread has now gone down, but oh well.)
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Scare-dy cat
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Yeah, quite. Plus there has always been the concept of the "pussy cat" as being a creature that is playful and non-violent, just seeking warm fuzzies.
If that's the origin then objecting to calling somebody a "pussy" is a bit like objecting to the idea of "beavering away" at a task.
If that's the origin then objecting to calling somebody a "pussy" is a bit like objecting to the idea of "beavering away" at a task.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
“Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding”
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You must be one of life's innocents not to have concluded that earlier in your life.
(((((Citizen's innocence)))))
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Essentialisation, possibly. Reducing the person you're addressing to being characteristic of a set of organs whose main use besides excretion is for fucking - probably the primal urge. Pretty much calling you an unthinking ugly fuck while ony using a couple of syllables.
As does "ringpiece".
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