Go on... rape her... she won't report it... [UniLad magazine article]
- Thread starter LiamO
- Start date
People might sneer but there was actually a good Doctor Who two parter that explored this type of shit.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
We were kind, considering the eviscerations I've read in this forum. Nobody called him a dick. Nobody said he was a cock. Everybody was very patient and levelheaded.Ahh, let's be kind. He's only 22 and I can remember thinking that I was really, really right the entire time when I was that age. He's probably gone to drink lager and snap the tips off Gauloises in intense discussion
He was the one that couldn't take people just asking him to back up his assertions/sweeping statements with facts and got a bit sulky/defensive.
He's been on urban for 6 years.
ETA: grammatical error.
trashpony
Hag
I was being very, very kind but yes, fair point. He's been on urban for six years?!?1? Fuck him. Throw him to the wolves
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
That seems to be the conclusion being drawn in academe, from what I've read. Unfortunately neither the medical nor the police environment are conducive to eliminating trauma, just minimising it at best, making things a whole lot more horrible at worst.
None of it is helped, of course by the institutional settings and the institutionalisation of the staff. They learn a way to deal with victims/patients, and it's difficult to change focus away from that, especially as both medical staff and police have "canteen cultures" that reinforce certain ways of acting, behaviours that, when a victim is exposed to them can be extremely denigratory of their experience as well as traumatising.
What's worse, of course, is the possibility that reporting, the process of recall of the event, can actually encourage dissociative behaviour patterns, dissociation being something that perplexes judges and juries alike, who expect weeping and wailing.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Ahh, let's be kind. He's only 22 and I can remember thinking that I was really, really right the entire time when I was that age. He's probably gone to drink lager and snap the tips off Gauloises in intense discussion
TBF, anyone who goes anywhere near a packet of Gauloises between the ages of 17 and 50 (denizens of the Francophone world excepted), needs their tip(s) snapped off.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
It's a rationalisation used by some jury members - the victim wasn't upset enough, distraught enough, then she couldn't have been raped.
Never mind that to even sit in the same room as the rapist probably triggers that dissicuation just to get through the experience. Dissociation is the mind's way of protecting us from trauma until it can be processed, so in situations which the mind perceives as the samne as the original trauma, it's only natural that dissociation will happen again.
I used to smoke Gauloises. But I was a denizen of the Francophone world at the time. They taste like the inside of my grandad's shoe
aha now I remember, lol if Das_Uberdog moans about monothought cliques...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
My great-grandmother was "lucky" insofar as she had a beau with an open mind, parents who adopted the child (my grandmother), and she wasn't so traumatised that it overly affected her relationship with my nan in later years.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
There's an interesting paper that investigates part of the issue (Hardy, A. Young, K and Holmes, E.A. 'Does trauma memory play a role in the experience of reporting sexual assault during police interviews? An exploratory study'. Memory. 2009. 17 (8). 783-788).
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Cheers VP, will read that.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I never sneer where Doctor Who is concerned, except maybe a teensy bit about Sylvester McCoy.
McCoy doesn't count
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Who doesn't?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I used to smoke Gauloises. But I was a denizen of the Francophone world at the time. They taste like the inside of my grandad's shoe
My art teacher smoked 'em. You couldn't go in the darkroom after he'd been in there because the Gauloises fug was so thick and smelly.
trashpony
Hag
Slightly off topic but that's one of the reasons that Kate McCann and Lindy Chamberlain were so vilified by the press because they were totally disassociating.
Are there any cases of men being wrongfully convicted/having their cases thrown out because of not showing enough emotion?
toggle
wobbly
it's a no win situation though. dissociate and you are obviously not traumatised and therefore not trustworthy. show emotion and you are obviously too emotionally unstable or hysterical to be trustworthy. or faking the emotion to try to garner sympathy and therefore not trustworthy. you need to learn that as a woman, you are simply wrong and there will be always some reason why you are not trusted.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I suspect not, although if a man shows emotion no doubt the 'emotionally unstable' label gets stuck on them too.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
There are times when I wish I had chosen a different user name, as every time I post on a thread like this I feel i need to point out that I am a man.
Others have more or less said this but I feel the rising acceptability of rape jokes is part of a shift in patriarchy to reassert itself following the advances made by women over the last 50 years. In particular I feel that as a reaction to the sexual freedoms women won, the extinct of sexual objectification was increased and that rape jokes are part of this. In the same way that while the pill was undoubtedly a hugh boon for women, some women found it made it harder for them to say no as they no longer had the get out clause of 'what if I get pregnant'.
This is the main thing I wont to mention, and to add a tiny bit of anecdotal evidence to the mix. I was on jury service last week and ended up on a rape case. Now I best not say too much on a public bulletin board but the result was a majority verdict of not guilty, I was one of those who felt he was guilty. It was a difficult experience for me (the deliberation was basically a 4 hour long argument that got very heated at times) and I haven't fully processed it or really finalised any conclusions yet.
To add some context, this was something that happened within an existing relationship. I felt that the police, prosecutor and judge all did reasonably well on the case, shure some things could have been better but I don't think they did anything to harm the case as such.
The main problem was the lack of any significant physical evidence, but this idea that she didn't behave like a rape victim or didn't seem like she had been raped was a big factor. This was despite the judge saying that any preconceived ideas of how a rape victim should behave should be left behind and there is not typical response. Also i felt in a number of cases she did behave exactly like a rape victim would be expected to behave.
One example is the medical examination. Again to give some context this would have taken place not long after the incident. When she was examined she refused to allow an examination of her vagina. Which to me while unfortunate also seems very understandable. But according to most of the jury it probably meant she was laying about the rape, oh the jury was mainly women.
Which is one of the problems with rape cases as the best time to gather the evidence is straight after but this of course is a terrible time for the victim. One, very unpleasant, question i was left with that maybe someone can answer. I assume that not all rapes leave behind physical evidence of the penetration being forced would I be right?
As I look back over the post, I'm not sure if I am adding anything to the debate but I've typed it so might as well post it, there is certainly a lot more about the case but I think this is a much as I want to say at the moment.
Oh, actually one more thing that may be of some interest. There was one other trial going on at the same time which was also a rape case and two of the people I was with had been on another rape case the week before. A tiny sample but i think it gives some idea of the number of rape cases.
Others have more or less said this but I feel the rising acceptability of rape jokes is part of a shift in patriarchy to reassert itself following the advances made by women over the last 50 years. In particular I feel that as a reaction to the sexual freedoms women won, the extinct of sexual objectification was increased and that rape jokes are part of this. In the same way that while the pill was undoubtedly a hugh boon for women, some women found it made it harder for them to say no as they no longer had the get out clause of 'what if I get pregnant'.
This is the main thing I wont to mention, and to add a tiny bit of anecdotal evidence to the mix. I was on jury service last week and ended up on a rape case. Now I best not say too much on a public bulletin board but the result was a majority verdict of not guilty, I was one of those who felt he was guilty. It was a difficult experience for me (the deliberation was basically a 4 hour long argument that got very heated at times) and I haven't fully processed it or really finalised any conclusions yet.
To add some context, this was something that happened within an existing relationship. I felt that the police, prosecutor and judge all did reasonably well on the case, shure some things could have been better but I don't think they did anything to harm the case as such.
The main problem was the lack of any significant physical evidence, but this idea that she didn't behave like a rape victim or didn't seem like she had been raped was a big factor. This was despite the judge saying that any preconceived ideas of how a rape victim should behave should be left behind and there is not typical response. Also i felt in a number of cases she did behave exactly like a rape victim would be expected to behave.
One example is the medical examination. Again to give some context this would have taken place not long after the incident. When she was examined she refused to allow an examination of her vagina. Which to me while unfortunate also seems very understandable. But according to most of the jury it probably meant she was laying about the rape, oh the jury was mainly women.
Which is one of the problems with rape cases as the best time to gather the evidence is straight after but this of course is a terrible time for the victim. One, very unpleasant, question i was left with that maybe someone can answer. I assume that not all rapes leave behind physical evidence of the penetration being forced would I be right?
As I look back over the post, I'm not sure if I am adding anything to the debate but I've typed it so might as well post it, there is certainly a lot more about the case but I think this is a much as I want to say at the moment.
Oh, actually one more thing that may be of some interest. There was one other trial going on at the same time which was also a rape case and two of the people I was with had been on another rape case the week before. A tiny sample but i think it gives some idea of the number of rape cases.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
thankyou oh merciful urban overlords, may you in future ignore what others say with just as much magnanimity
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
A tough question, but in essence I believe it is correct - not all rape leaves behind unequivocal physical evidence of being raped. That is not to say the rape has not occurred. Sometimes the physical evidence may be inconclusive.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
What do you mean?
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Which is what I assumed, thanks.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
After a number of attacks by dingoes on children recently, the viewpoint that dingos aren't the cute innocent animals they're thought to be is being changed. Better late than never, it's 30 years since the Lindy Chamberlain case.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Also not everyone wants to make a huge scene in front of strangers.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
if that sounds judgemental let me explain. its not meant to be. if i was in a courtroom, let alone something as emotional as a rape case, i wouldn't want to start crying, etc, in front of people i didn't know. i find it difficult enough to talk about my feelings at the best of times.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Do stop whining, there's a good self-pitying cunt.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
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