Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Give up Bingo and Booze if your Benefit is being cut!

in my own opinion, looking at my own life, conditions externally need to be there (how can i support myself if there's no job to support myself with, etc), but also i do have to make the right choices in my own life and take responsibility. any sane rational person would know that going to the job centre instead of the pub will lead to maybe a better future, it doesn't need government or HA or whoever to preach that to anyone. i would say that external factors account for about 90% of it and 10% is using one's head. sadly, there are those out there for whom the whole 100% is fucked...they need help and ways out, not statements that you'll find in any church any day of the week. i do believe that to an EXTENT individuals ARE self determining in so much they can freely act to a degree in the environments they find themselves in. because if they are not the whole idea of having a life becomes a bit of a nonsense.

if i had a mate or a son who was pissing his life away, going down the bookies instead of working on CVs, and he wanted my help, what person wouldn't say ease off the things that don't work in his favor?
 
in the grand scheme of things, if a few people, and i would think it is a very small minority, want to chose doing things that the rest of us wouldn't chose, then so what, really? my dad used to say that no matter what society is like, no matter how equal or prosperous, there will always be those who do things differently. thought we were a free country and all that!
 
kenny, bang out of order people suggesting you're noncey...

...if they were a group of Eatonians at a bus stop drinking red bull, would you have been as bothered? kids always do to awful things. i used to have wam bars for lunch!
 
treelover said:
How long were you in the IS and SWP, same time as Greg Dyke?

you must be very old...
Click to expand...
Define "old". I don't think I am old but others might. How old are you? 14? If so, I might be called old. How old are you? 80? If so I might be called young. It is irrelevant, and an irrelevance.

Certainly I'm old enough to know that insult (intended) is something to which the young, and those who cannot defend/debate their point usually resort when someone doesn't reflect their opinion.
 
If the HA had said

"With upcoming benefit cuts you may find yourself struggling to cope financially. We can help:
* budgeting advice & methods
* debt management
* access to financial support services
* benefit claim checks

I doubt anyone would have got annoyed

Where you find people who don't budget well you can help them without insulting all those who do.

Personally I think benefits should be set at a level which allows some non essential entertainment/socialising type things because socially it's really important, isolation is a big issue for claimants.
 
This may have been said before.But as benefits are cut, people don't have money to buy a sandwich at a cafe, or go to a pub or bingo.The money people get on benefits, goes directly into the pockets of business people or landlords.Unemployed people don't hoard their money in complicated's tax schemes.Whatever your thoughts are on the deserving, all un deserving poor, the above is a fact.
 
BigTom said:
If the HA had said

"With upcoming benefit cuts you may find yourself struggling to cope financially. We can help:
* budgeting advice & methods
* debt management
* access to financial support services
* benefit claim checks

I doubt anyone would have got annoyed

Where you find people who don't budget well you can help them without insulting all those who do.

Personally I think benefits should be set at a level which allows some non essential entertainment/socialising type things because socially it's really important, isolation is a big issue for claimants.
Click to expand...
exactly the point i was trying to make but in half the words
 
dessiato said:
And your point is? I've not judged so much as been judged for others' misunderstandings. I certainly haven't condemned anyone here.
Click to expand...

"If I do so and so, then everybody else should too" is text book Tory speak.
 
audiotech said:
People are always going to put the essentials first - food, water, heating, keeping a roof over their head - you self-deluded fool.
Click to expand...

Er, no, not always. And certainly not where there's substance abuse (not talking about the occasional drink/spliff here). And what's really sad is that there are very often kids caught up in these scenarios who have no choice.
 
I've only read up to page 2, but am finding the, 'aw, let the poor enjoy their vices, they've got little else' rather patronising. It reminds me of attitudes of some teachers in some schools towards white working class and black pupils which ran along the lines of 'what can you do, that's what they're like?' Well, what they can do is raise the bar and encourage/expect a little more of their pupils. I grew up on a large council estate in Cardiff, and when my mother left home, I was charged with managing the meagre weekly budget. Growing up in a working class community imbued in me a sense of getting your necessities in first, then think about luxuries. I know its shitty, and ideally no-one would ever have to live hand to mouth in this way. But if you're in this situation (and I was for the first 4 years of my child's life), you don't buy a packet of fags if it means your kid will go without fruit. I don't see why we recoil from that idea so much. The system is brutal, the food industry has virtually decimated the ability of poor/w/c people to be resourceful, as we were years ago, and the whole system stinks. But we have to try to support eachother in making the best of a very bad situation.
 
shygirl said:
Er, no, not always. And certainly not where there's substance abuse (not talking about the occasional drink/spliff here). And what's really sad is that there are very often kids caught up in these scenarios who have no choice.
Click to expand...

Yes, but those people with abuse problems, and the people who've given in to nihilism like xes mentioned, do still know they should be buying basics first. Telling them to cut down on their booze won't help. To the people who don't buy those luxuries already, it's worse than useless advice.

What next, the HA's going to send out leaflets telling tenants to brush twice a day?
 
dessiato said:
Define "old". I don't think I am old but others might. How old are you? 14? If so, I might be called old. How old are you? 80? If so I might be called young. It is irrelevant, and an irrelevance.

Certainly I'm old enough to know that insult (intended) is something to which the young, and those who cannot defend/debate their point usually resort when someone doesn't reflect their opinion.
Click to expand...

just answer the main question, please, how long?
 
I was helping out a friend's daughter who was struggling with drink alcohol abuse. Regularly took food over, cos she had a 6 year old who often didn't eat, and would put money on her leccy and gas. Took a pizza over one night, but she said she couldn't cook it, cos there was only enough money for the tv and the lights. Before she could fucking blink, the tv was off and the pizza was in the oven. (The child is now living with his grandmother). Of course the system is to blame, but I for one will not stand by and collude with low expectations of poor w/c people. And that means fighting on a political level against the obscene inequalities in our society, challenging prejudice about w/c people, and working with families in a supportive (not patronising) way, to bring back the knowledge base that was so valuable in w/c communities when I was growing up.
 
I agree with most the posts about the delivery of the message - telling people is never gonna work. We need community space to get people cooking for eachother, learning new skills, etc. But it needs to be bottom up, otherwise it won't work. Had quite a good thing going on when my child was young and I was on benefits, used to share toys/clothes with other mums on benefits, cook for eachother, see each other through hard times. Thatcherism put paid in many respects to the idea of reaching out and helping eachother, people were encouraged to think about themselves only and it became all about the money and what you owned. But we can still try to make things a little better, albeit on micro level(think that's the term?). One example is the recycle thread on Urban, have posted several times asking for household items for yp moving into accommodation with nothing, and got shedloads back from this community. That reminds me, need to make a donation to urban, cos its such a good resource.
 
MillwallShoes said:
in my own opinion, looking at my own life, conditions externally need to be there (how can i support myself if there's no job to support myself with, etc), but also i do have to make the right choices in my own life and take responsibility. any sane rational person would know that going to the job centre instead of the pub will lead to maybe a better future, it doesn't need government or HA or whoever to preach that to anyone. i would say that external factors account for about 90% of it and 10% is using one's head. sadly, there are those out there for whom the whole 100% is fucked...they need help and ways out, not statements that you'll find in any church any day of the week. i do believe that to an EXTENT individuals ARE self determining in so much they can freely act to a degree in the environments they find themselves in. because if they are not the whole idea of having a life becomes a bit of a nonsense.

if i had a mate or a son who was pissing his life away, going down the bookies instead of working on CVs, and he wanted my help, what person wouldn't say ease off the things that don't work in his favor?
Click to expand...


fucking well said that man! (even if you are millwall!)
 
kenny g said:
Less a case of attracting idiots but as idiots have been tolerated they have managed to dominate the discourse. This inevitably leads to a loss of users which leads to the tone being set by a few who have very little of substance to contribute.
Click to expand...

Little of substance like suggesting without evidence that children you see at the bus stop drinking Red Bull are the offspring of the people the subject of the OP is aimed at, perhaps?

Mote and beam, kenny. Mote and beam.
 
MillwallShoes said:
in my own opinion, looking at my own life, conditions externally need to be there (how can i support myself if there's no job to support myself with, etc), but also i do have to make the right choices in my own life and take responsibility. any sane rational person would know that going to the job centre instead of the pub will lead to maybe a better future, it doesn't need government or HA or whoever to preach that to anyone.
Click to expand...

I know several building subbies who pretty much use a boozer as their office. Makes more sense for them to go to the pub that to the Job Centre. :)
 
MillwallShoes said:
just as some think we are entirely responsible for our lives, at the other end there are those who think that people are completely controlled by their environments. both bollocks in my view!
Click to expand...

Of course they're both bollocks. Life isn't one or the other, and people differ in the amount of instrumentality that informs their actions at any given time for any given matter. We may be at the mercy of the current, but that doesn't mean we should try to swim to shore anyway!
 
Oh, about the kids drinking red bull in the morning. Kenny g came under a lot of attack and vitriol for his postings earlier, but he isn't wrong about kids eating/drinking absolute shite in the mornings. Kids often go to school without breakfast, or they get given some money to buy some on their way to school. Usually ending up with crisps/sweets/fizzy drinks. And like someone said, a bag of porridge oats costs next to nothing.

All of you posters who protest about these kinds of things being said, would you allow your OWN children to eat crap before going to school? If not, why is it acceptable for anyone else to allow it. Stop patronising working class people. The way I have always worked is, how would I want my child to be treated? If its not acceptable for my own, then why should I think it ok for others.
 
shygirl said:
Oh, about the kids drinking red bull in the morning. Kenny g came under a lot of attack and vitriol for his postings earlier, but he isn't wrong about kids eating/drinking absolute shite in the mornings. Kids often go to school without breakfast, or they get given some money to buy some on their way to school. Usually ending up with crisps/sweets/fizzy drinks. And like someone said, a bag of porridge oats costs next to nothing.

All of you posters who protest about these kinds of things being said, would you allow your OWN children to eat crap before going to school? If not, why is it acceptable for anyone else to allow it. Stop patronising working class people. The way I have always worked is, how would I want my child to be treated? If its not acceptable for my own, then why should I think it ok for others.
Click to expand...
so long has it been, and so long it'll be.

of course no one would want their kid doing that, but what teenager on the way to school, middle, working, or upper class thinks, i am going to stop off and buy a nice big fat pot of greek yogart with oats topped off by sliced melon and a gronola bar?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

krtek a houby
King William’s time is up
Replies
2
Views
188
PR1Berske
PR1Berske
JimW
Jon Benjamin's time is up
Replies
6
Views
506
Chz
Chz
Kid_Eternity
David Lammy’s time is up
Replies
10
Views
453
Karl Masks
K
Larry O'Hara
Chancellor Rachel Reeves: Her Time Is Up!
Replies
18
Views
704
Larry O'Hara
Larry O'Hara
W
Maybe Your Time Is Up
2 3 4 5
Replies
141
Views
6K
cupid_stunt
cupid_stunt
Back
Top Bottom