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Gezi Park - Istanbul

Gf is going to Istanbul tomorrow for 5 days. She's set up a fund for friends to donate. Making sure that protestors get basic supplies like blankets, batteries, candles, milk, antacids etc....

She's told me she won't do anything stupid, but she's half Turkish and half Irish. I'm going to be a nervous wreck :D
 
On the black people issue:-

BMgPebOCcAA6kwh.jpg:large

He used the word 'zenci' which no longer should be used - it is bizarrely enough the Ottoman way of describing imported servants from Sudan, it should be siyahi.

PM in the caption to the right is saying:
'According to them [protestors] we don't understand art or music. According to them we are n****rs.'

Tremendous - a government in power for well over 10 years under no foreign blockade, no sanctions, no discriminatory trade measures or capital boycott, is the innocent victim, it has done no wrong.
 
Turkish P.M. Erdogan: We Cannot Deny Our Ottoman Past
Time. Sept. 29, 2011
Of course we now live in a very different world, which is going through a scary process of transition and change. We were born and raised on the land that is the legacy of the Ottoman empire. They are our ancestors. It is out of the question that we might deny that presence. Of course, the empire had some beautiful parts and some not so beautiful parts. It’s a very natural right for us to use what was beautiful about the Ottoman Empire today. We need to upgrade ourselves in every sense, socially, economically, politically. If we cannot upgrade ourselves and the way we perceive the world, we will lag behind tremendously. It would be self-denial. That’s why whether it be in the Middle East or North Africa or anywhere in the world, our perception has in its core this wealth that is coming from our historical legacy. But it’s established upon principles of peace. And it all depends on people loving one another without discrimination whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Neo-Ottomans? Neo-conservatives? What's it all about?
 
sihhi said:
On the black people issue:-

BMgPebOCcAA6kwh.jpg:large

He used the word 'zenci' which no longer should be used - it is bizarrely enough the Ottoman way of describing imported servants from Sudan, it should be siyahi.

PM in the caption to the right is saying:
'According to them [protestors] we don't understand art or music. According to them we are n****rs.'

Tremendous - a government in power for well over 10 years under no foreign blockade, no sanctions, no discriminatory trade measures or capital boycott, is the innocent victim, it has done no wrong.
Click to expand...

that's completely out of order.
 
sihhi my friend also said that both right-wing and left-wing groups were involved in the protests and attacking the government - is this true?
 
sihhi said:
It is probably a reference to the fact that Digiturk - the virtually monopoly supplier of satelite - has eliminated some channels from its service esp CNN International - the main European-focused channel, and replaced it with CNN Asia, which doesn't show the protests except in the odd bulletin.
Click to expand...


I've been trying to find out more about that, but computer translation of articles that may be about it are not good enough for me to fully grasp the story.

eg: http://www.gazeteciler.com/gundem/digiturkten-cnn-international-aciklamasi-67304h.html

and http://www.guncelliyorum.com/2013/06/12/digiturk-cnn-internationali-kaldirdi-mi/

Can you help explain what that says?
 
frogwoman said:
sihhi my friend also said that both right-wing and left-wing groups were involved in the protests and attacking the government - is this true?
Click to expand...

Yes sort of I think
The CHP centre-left opposition is very right-wing it has elements which are as resistant as the AKP on granting autonomy. Plus some outright neofascists MHP dissidents might have joined in, although they were told by their leader not to.

Plus general right-wing attitudes - I saw a scene from yesterday of protestors stopping to put a police officer on a stretcher after he was knocked out for some reason. Right-wingers demanding that leftist guerrilla symbols' posters and Ocalan posters be removed. Right-wingers saying we don't want the BDP Kurdish party here. Right-wingers calling for police to go back to the southeast and fight the nation's real enemy. They're the minority but they are there.
 
elbows said:
I've been trying to find out more about that, but computer translation of articles that may be about it are not good enough for me to fully grasp the story.

eg: http://www.gazeteciler.com/gundem/digiturkten-cnn-international-aciklamasi-67304h.html

and http://www.guncelliyorum.com/2013/06/12/digiturk-cnn-internationali-kaldirdi-mi/

Can you help explain what that says?
Click to expand...

If you look at the top of gazeteciler it has an article by Levent Gultekin called 'foreign forces that want to knock down the AKP' full of lies and spurious nonsense.

guncelli yorum has 'Voices of 'Keep resisting Turkey' from Israel'

I don't really trust both sites there, but they are just giving the explanation by Digiturk that the change over from CNN International to CNN Asia is a normal thing which CNN does to rotate the channels depending on the times, nothing to do with censorship.
CNN International cuts out in the middle of broadcasting on the protests and switches to CNN Asia. As of an hour ago it's still CNN Asia, apparently.
 
sihhi said:
It's about encouraging minority Turks in the Balkans to reidentify with Turkey, and making deals with Middle East governments rather than them turning to China.
Click to expand...
My sister in law is Macedonian and I've been to Skopje with them to stay with her family a few times. There's been a lot of investment by Turkey there. Skopje is a divided city though and I didn't talk to anyone who identified as Turkish.

There's still a lot of resentment against Greece though. Less now since the collapse and that many Greeks are coming to Macedonia to buy essentials rather than the other way round.
 
yield said:
My sister in law is Macedonian and I've been to Skopje with them to stay with her family a few times. There's been a lot of investment by Turkey there. Skopje is a divided city though and I didn't talk to anyone who identified as Turkish.
Click to expand...

Well yeah the Turks who stayed in Yugoslavia and didn't return, tend to think of themselves as more Macedonian than Turkish or Ottoman.

On punching against punches it's bluster my guess is rubber bullets could be used, but then again they have been used in Hatay, in Adana, in Gazi Sultangazi.
 
Ethem Sarisuluk - the 26 year old worker - mentioned earlier has died in hospital.

This was a rally for him before he died.
BMlYPSaCYAAotii.jpg:large


There's still another handful in ICUs.
 
Ankara Kennedy Street , just after 1am in the morning - people forced to demonstrate behind barricades for fear of police onslaught.

BMl4DpkCYAAZEd4.jpg:large
 
sihhi said:
Yes sort of I think
The CHP centre-left opposition is very right-wing it has elements which are as resistant as the AKP on granting autonomy. Plus some outright neofascists MHP dissidents might have joined in, although they were told by their leader not to.

Plus general right-wing attitudes - I saw a scene from yesterday of protestors stopping to put a police officer on a stretcher after he was knocked out for some reason. Right-wingers demanding that leftist guerrilla symbols' posters and Ocalan posters be removed. Right-wingers saying we don't want the BDP Kurdish party here. Right-wingers calling for police to go back to the southeast and fight the nation's real enemy. They're the minority but they are there.
Click to expand...


Sihhi thanks for everything you've written. You mentioned the MHP, did they not dissolve some years ago?
 
miss direct said:
Not many but in Istanbul there is a Nigerian community and Somalian students (brought over in a goodwill gesture by the government on scholarships).
Click to expand...

Also quıte a few Sudanese from Ottoman days.

Bad news from the people I know who've been ın Taksım recently... lots of rumors about what the polıce are puttıng ın/usıng ınstead of tear gas, one Leftıst paper alleged Agent Orange... anyway ıt's a real show of force... though the pot-bangıng was stıll loud at 9pm last nıght...
 
miss direct said:
Starting to wonder if I have a future here. Thankfully I have the choice, unlike 99% of people here.
Click to expand...

A surprısıng number of upper-mıddle-class secularıst Turks have some way out, whıch they'll use at the fırst sıgn of real trouble... that's somethıng that ısn't often taken ınto account when the future's dıscussed here...
 
I have been out of the country and did not know this was going on until I first saw this on the telly in the local kebab shop on Tuesday night when all the staff were cheering the protesters on, of course I joined in much to the consternation of the Doncaster North Massif!!!
Turkish politicians have for too long being keeping their foot on the backs of the citizens necks, sadly the police are brutal in the extreme.
Shocking coverage from the rest of Europe, once again it is a support story as Syria has become behind a 92 year old man in hospital for a routine procedure!!!!:mad:
 
phildwyer said:
Bad news from the people I know who've been ın Taksım recently... lots of rumors about what the polıce are puttıng ın/usıng ınstead of tear gas, one Leftıst paper alleged Agent Orange... anyway ıt's a real show of force... though the pot-bangıng was stıll loud at 9pm last nıght...
Click to expand...
There was talk of that upthread.
butchersapron said:
A defoliant. In an urban setting. No they're not.

It's not a CNN report either and they say they can't back it up (no offence meant B_m)
Click to expand...
sihhi said:
This is another nonsense from the other side that's been picked up via twitter - it's an orange liquid that hurts your skin and makes you want to vomit but it's not Agent Orange.
In May Day a softer red version was used apparently.
Click to expand...
albionism said:
Yeah, i have been wondering what that nasty, orangey looking stuff was in the water canons.
Click to expand...
ViolentPanda said:
Dye. Old trick. Means that you can just spray people with the water cannon, then nick them over the next couple of days because the dye doesn't wash off. You can bet that if the coalition ever get those water cannon on our streets, they'll be looking at using dye (or more likely "smart water") in theirs.
Click to expand...
 
There is no real trouble for middle-class Turks and is unlikely to ever be.

Police vehicles stacking up in Taksim earlier today.

BMpfch0CUAAmzdB.jpg:large
 
Terrible news. Hayat TV - probably the best television station in the country for discussion but accessible only by Turksat Satellite - has lost its broadcasting license. Turksat will take it off air from Friday.

It's a tiny TV independent EMEP and small trade union branches backed TV station not many employees unlike Greece but a crucial voice.

Internet is no adequate replacement, only about 40% of the country has internet access and there are no public libraries to really speak of as far as I know, and many of those are still dial-up.
 
I know its vicarious emotion but I really am worried and upset about what is going to happen, will more people come to their aid?
 
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