Gezi Park - Istanbul
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sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I've no idea, not going to go back-seat driving.
I think the feeling amongst the middle-class is let's ride out the boom longer <live for today, protesting is old hat>
amongst the non-religious working-class it's fear about losing jobs if they economy nose-dives <we can't afford to protest>,
amongst the religious working-class it's that the PM is like Menderes and Ozal and all protesting against him is always a foreign or secularist plot to destabilise his rule and then kill him (they assume Ozal was poisoned, no evidence but it's an accepted conspiracy)
Few countries can do the blaming of previous governments/regimes so successfully (except maybe Russia, Ethiopia, Congo, South Africa) it's 10+ years in power and still the government is the one under attack by "they" who caused a centre-right-Islamist coalition to collapse in 1997 - the government is always the victim.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Spoke to a mate tonight who's from Turkey, I know her from the CWI school a couple of years ago where we shared a room. It was the first time I had spoke to her in over a year. I didn't entirely understand what she was saying but I think she was saying that her brother had been in the protests and I think that he was beaten by the police.
She also seemed to be saying that a lot of people involved in the protests were better off workers and middle class people, is that an accurate picture sihhi?
She also seemed to be saying that a lot of people involved in the protests were better off workers and middle class people, is that an accurate picture sihhi?
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
My sense is: people from the worst, lowest sections of the non-Sunni or 'leftist family' or Kurdish working-class, plus trade union members who tend to be in the better paying factory jobs or civil service, plus agitated politicised middle-class people usually Kemalists, plus greens/liberals a tiny sliver.
Here are people from Gazi Mahallesi - as of half an hour ago - midnight there - on the TEM E5 Motorway the main one heading all the way from Ankara to Istanbul to Europe.
Police meeting them with tear gas.
sim667
All aboard the 303 bus.
Just seen this link, apparently protestors are being surrounded and tear gassed in buildings now
http://www.anonsweden.se/?p=3290
http://www.anonsweden.se/?p=3290
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
There are a number of places where gassing is going on still at 2 o'clock in the morning.
Here is your typical middle-class AKP supporter - some media reports seem to suggest the middle-class are against the AKP en masse - wholly inaccurate.
Figures from nowhere but my own interpretation of emails and facebook 70-30 against in middle-class, 30-70 against in working-class
https://twitter.com/ZBilahiyat/status/344583605198147584
Someone posts quite softly:
rte'ye duyurulur: haydan huydan kardeşlik olmaz!
Notice to PM: Um and ahhing doesn't equal brotherhood
Response:-
@aynurgoek yıllarca kürtlere çapulcu muamaelesi yapıldı erdoğan insan gibi muamale yaptı diye mi bu kininiz
For years Kurds were treated as vagabonds and looters, the PM treated them as humans is this the reason for your hatred?
@aynurgoek taksim gezi masumca başladı fakat şeytana hizmet eder hale geldi
Taksim Gezi started innocently but it's now at a point where it's making the devil happy
Here is your typical middle-class AKP supporter - some media reports seem to suggest the middle-class are against the AKP en masse - wholly inaccurate.
Figures from nowhere but my own interpretation of emails and facebook 70-30 against in middle-class, 30-70 against in working-class
https://twitter.com/ZBilahiyat/status/344583605198147584
Someone posts quite softly:
rte'ye duyurulur: haydan huydan kardeşlik olmaz!
Notice to PM: Um and ahhing doesn't equal brotherhood
Response:-
@aynurgoek yıllarca kürtlere çapulcu muamaelesi yapıldı erdoğan insan gibi muamale yaptı diye mi bu kininiz
For years Kurds were treated as vagabonds and looters, the PM treated them as humans is this the reason for your hatred?
@aynurgoek taksim gezi masumca başladı fakat şeytana hizmet eder hale geldi
Taksim Gezi started innocently but it's now at a point where it's making the devil happy
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
On the media the newspaper gives two sentences to four TV stations receiving fines for coverage over the protests:
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/23486445.asp
All are sort of 'opposition' Ulusal is hard Kemalist almost militarist at times, Halk is main centre-left, Em and Cem are Shiite alevi channels. Plus IMC and Hayat - they make up the grand total of 6 out of over 250 channels that have a sort of anti-government line (not including the foreign-based Kurdish channels) - Cem is often quite pro-government though.
Of those 6, only one - Halk - is half viewable on an ordinary antenna or dish, the others you need an expensive large one.
It's not a good situation
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/23486445.asp
All are sort of 'opposition' Ulusal is hard Kemalist almost militarist at times, Halk is main centre-left, Em and Cem are Shiite alevi channels. Plus IMC and Hayat - they make up the grand total of 6 out of over 250 channels that have a sort of anti-government line (not including the foreign-based Kurdish channels) - Cem is often quite pro-government though.
Of those 6, only one - Halk - is half viewable on an ordinary antenna or dish, the others you need an expensive large one.
It's not a good situation
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Things have changed
1 There's lots of production and import of tear gas so no live rounds so few deaths just lots of injuries and nasty experiences.
2 Previously channels would have been closed down for stretches as a punishment, now it's steady financial erosion.
Other Media is a tight scheme:
State Turkish channels TRT 1 - 5, TRT Int, TRT Documentary etc are all pro-government.
TRT Ses - the state Kurdish channel has no politics at all just very brief news bulletins.
All the others have the odd voice urging some restraint against 'real' protestors but have been essentially in favour of wiping clear terrorist provocateurs:- Star, ATV, Kanal D, CNN, SkyTurk, HaberTurk, 24, NTV, Kanal 8, Kanal 6, Flash, Olay, - I went especially to a friend to be able to see them all over the weekend - all lies stuff or extended coverage of PM speeches.
It's Mediterranean Putinism.
But people are given 'choice' in channels something like 40 or so (not counting regional ones) - easy to access ones, more than the 5 here.
There are political discussion programmes but always pro-government stacked, always repeating 'Turkey has changed, but some people don't want it to change [ie anti-government people]'- go on for hours but get nowhere, discuss nothing concrete on actual details.
News bulletins are sensationalised accounts (get boring soon enough) of here were some people having a fight in a street and the police sorted them out, here's the PM giving a speech at place X, here's the President giving a speech at place Y, here's international investors.
Because news and politics programmes are so boring, many watch the soft entertainment (magazine celebrity news) and sport which there is a lot of. Match of the Day can go on for over 2 or 3 hours on many channels - and daily marriage shows 'hello this is X from place Z, looking for a rich husband' 'Hello U, do you have a nice car?' 'Yes.' 'What brand?' Eventually marriage comes 'remember what the PM said three children ha ha', and Turkish soaps (now a massive export industry, used to be imported from Latin America and Philippines, for years one of the most popular shows was a dubbed version of the American Young & the Restless, dubbed Dallas was also popular in the post military coup days, that Turkey is producing this kind of stuff is meant to be a source of pride etc etc). The new one is fashion programmes - women headscarved and non-headscarved (cited as progress) wearing dresses being judged by fashion experts on how well they have done - every day, similar variants on the channels.
Lots of travel programmes for the new middle-classes 'hey let's go to Macedonia to discover about our great Ottoman Empire, hey let's go to Yemen to do the same' 'hey let's head east and discover our country and boost our tourism sector'.
Lots of cookery shows and lots of dieting shows too. Plus Western format imports - the Survivors, Who wants to be a millionaires, Pop Idols done in Turkish style. Lots of dubbed films and dubbed kids and nature programmes. Nothing of any real substance at all being produced - no serious documentaries, no serious dramas, no poetry, no serious discussions, it's all 'pretend' it looks really real on the surface but the anti-government voices are always on a leash, and know that any harsh criticism is the kiss of no more appearances see Rusen Cakir (relegated to a weekly column on Vatan) and Banu Guven (relegated to an internet website).
People can't recall a time when an ordinary leftist or an actual trade union leader from DISK is interviewed, it's always KAMU-SEN always HAK-IS or TURK-IS.
The religious channels are obviously quite different with a heavy Kuran and Hadis focus.
1 There's lots of production and import of tear gas so no live rounds so few deaths just lots of injuries and nasty experiences.
2 Previously channels would have been closed down for stretches as a punishment, now it's steady financial erosion.
Other Media is a tight scheme:
State Turkish channels TRT 1 - 5, TRT Int, TRT Documentary etc are all pro-government.
TRT Ses - the state Kurdish channel has no politics at all just very brief news bulletins.
All the others have the odd voice urging some restraint against 'real' protestors but have been essentially in favour of wiping clear terrorist provocateurs:- Star, ATV, Kanal D, CNN, SkyTurk, HaberTurk, 24, NTV, Kanal 8, Kanal 6, Flash, Olay, - I went especially to a friend to be able to see them all over the weekend - all lies stuff or extended coverage of PM speeches.
It's Mediterranean Putinism.
But people are given 'choice' in channels something like 40 or so (not counting regional ones) - easy to access ones, more than the 5 here.
There are political discussion programmes but always pro-government stacked, always repeating 'Turkey has changed, but some people don't want it to change [ie anti-government people]'- go on for hours but get nowhere, discuss nothing concrete on actual details.
News bulletins are sensationalised accounts (get boring soon enough) of here were some people having a fight in a street and the police sorted them out, here's the PM giving a speech at place X, here's the President giving a speech at place Y, here's international investors.
Because news and politics programmes are so boring, many watch the soft entertainment (magazine celebrity news) and sport which there is a lot of. Match of the Day can go on for over 2 or 3 hours on many channels - and daily marriage shows 'hello this is X from place Z, looking for a rich husband' 'Hello U, do you have a nice car?' 'Yes.' 'What brand?' Eventually marriage comes 'remember what the PM said three children ha ha', and Turkish soaps (now a massive export industry, used to be imported from Latin America and Philippines, for years one of the most popular shows was a dubbed version of the American Young & the Restless, dubbed Dallas was also popular in the post military coup days, that Turkey is producing this kind of stuff is meant to be a source of pride etc etc). The new one is fashion programmes - women headscarved and non-headscarved (cited as progress) wearing dresses being judged by fashion experts on how well they have done - every day, similar variants on the channels.
Lots of travel programmes for the new middle-classes 'hey let's go to Macedonia to discover about our great Ottoman Empire, hey let's go to Yemen to do the same' 'hey let's head east and discover our country and boost our tourism sector'.
Lots of cookery shows and lots of dieting shows too. Plus Western format imports - the Survivors, Who wants to be a millionaires, Pop Idols done in Turkish style. Lots of dubbed films and dubbed kids and nature programmes. Nothing of any real substance at all being produced - no serious documentaries, no serious dramas, no poetry, no serious discussions, it's all 'pretend' it looks really real on the surface but the anti-government voices are always on a leash, and know that any harsh criticism is the kiss of no more appearances see Rusen Cakir (relegated to a weekly column on Vatan) and Banu Guven (relegated to an internet website).
People can't recall a time when an ordinary leftist or an actual trade union leader from DISK is interviewed, it's always KAMU-SEN always HAK-IS or TURK-IS.
The religious channels are obviously quite different with a heavy Kuran and Hadis focus.
albionism
A successful virus clinging to a speck of mud.
Lawyers being arrested in Turkey.Scary shit
http://erkansaka.net/archives/23464
http://erkansaka.net/archives/23464
Red Storm
M14
Exactly.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Did you fly Spitfires or Hurricanes?
Hellsbells
World's best procrastinator
Idiot
mack
Fact Me Till I Fart
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Thriller doesn't think it's boring. They don't think about it at all beyond the opportunity it gives them to shout 'look at me...look at me!'.
Meanwhile Erdogan, by his actions, seems committed to sharpening and reinforcing divisions in Turkish society. I presume he is confident of winning, in the short term at least. Whether he does or not, it will have ramifications for us, so Thriller's disinterest is not just narcissistic but also stupid.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Meanwhile Erdogan, by his actions, seems committed to sharpening and reinforcing divisions in Turkish society. I presume he is confident of winning, in the short term at least. Whether he does or not, it will have ramifications for us, so Thriller's disinterest is not just narcissistic but also stupid.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
RedDragon
"I am not one of your fans!"
You should be thankful you live in England - unless you happened to be in Soho yesterday.
miss direct
misfungled
So much depressing news coming out today.
1. News channels that broadcast from the park last night have been fined.
2. Spoke to one of my former students who was in the park last night. He said it was like hell.
3. Amnesty international has said the PM is personally responsible for the violence.
4. Reports of the PM making a statement implying that black people are uneducated and uncultured.
5. Starting to wonder if I have a future here. Thankfully I have the choice, unlike 99% of people here.
Sorry for the lack of links but I'm using my phone.
Is it boring that 5,000 people have been injured? Maybe you would find it less boring if you'd experienced tear gassing yourself. Or if your friends and family were involved.
1. News channels that broadcast from the park last night have been fined.
2. Spoke to one of my former students who was in the park last night. He said it was like hell.
3. Amnesty international has said the PM is personally responsible for the violence.
4. Reports of the PM making a statement implying that black people are uneducated and uncultured.
5. Starting to wonder if I have a future here. Thankfully I have the choice, unlike 99% of people here.
Sorry for the lack of links but I'm using my phone.
Is it boring that 5,000 people have been injured? Maybe you would find it less boring if you'd experienced tear gassing yourself. Or if your friends and family were involved.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Are there many black people in turkey miss direct ? How horrible 
miss direct
misfungled
Not many but in Istanbul there is a Nigerian community and Somalian students (brought over in a goodwill gesture by the government on scholarships).
elbows
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong but that sounds unlikely to me. Especially satellite TV which is not trivial for individual states to block.
miss direct
misfungled
I don't have a TV or I would check. I wouldn't put it past the government though. We didn't used to be able to access you tube.
Can't remember who it was but someone was asking about Izmir. I'm just leaving after two days here. Calm and quiet apart from evening pot banging at 9pm, a small group of people camping out near Pasaport, graffiti and a wrecked Starbucks.
Can't remember who it was but someone was asking about Izmir. I'm just leaving after two days here. Calm and quiet apart from evening pot banging at 9pm, a small group of people camping out near Pasaport, graffiti and a wrecked Starbucks.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
It is probably a reference to the fact that Digiturk - the virtually monopoly supplier of satelite - has eliminated some channels from its service esp CNN International - the main European-focused channel, and replaced it with CNN Asia, which doesn't show the protests except in the odd bulletin.
Everything has been lost and scattered hence a sit down protest tonight as it gets dark opposition MPs are there so unlikely to be moved on:
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