Gerry Adams exposed , his lies demolished at brothers rape trial

[Casually Red]

Are you serious or just a loonie troll?

Crowing here about teenagers supposedly 'facing down' former IRA leaders and then the paint-bombing of a mural as evidence of some kind of community backlash... FFS!

I'm not a Shinner but your posts are enough to drive me back towards them.

i doubt very much its my posts that have anything to do with that . Your hero simply isnt everyone elses , hes utterly despised by many republicans ...particularly in west belfast...and rightly so .

Nobody claimed any teenagers faced anyone down, they simply refused to be faced down themselves. Again your at it with the fictions and strawmen . And the evidence of what many in the the lower falls community think of Gerry Adams isnt in a few paint bombs . Its in the fact he abandoned west Belfast ..were he lives...for politics in Co Louth..were he doesnt live . He simply cant face the people on their doorsteps there .

 

[Casually Red]

So the 'fake arrest', was preceded by the 'fake campaign' to have him arrested, which in turn was preceded by the widespread press campaign to traduce him, which was preceded by his appearance in the witness box at his brother's trial...and then a brief (just days really) respite after his release...and readers are again reminded in screaming headlines of his brother's conviction and trial, and his involvement in it, plus his denial of IRA membership plus...all orchestrated by the Brit security services in order to further boost his, and the standing of SF, in the midst of a critical election campaign.

Nothing like the combination of a grisly torture and killing of a mother of 11 with allegations of involvement in a pedophilia scandal to get the voters out.

The alternative view?

With SF riding high in the polls, enjoying parity with the other leading parties, and GA deemed to be the most popular party reader in a poll in April after a surge in support in the previous couple of months, historic enemies got together to throw a spanner in the works.

But that would be a 'madman's' reading of events.

Obviously.

lets get this straight...is it his sister in law or his niece your calling an historic enemy here ? There arent any allegations of Gerry Adams involvement in a pedophilia scandal . Its been proven beyond any doubt the man was extremely close to someone he knew was a child rapist for over 20 years . And covered it up . And reported the childs mother to the social services .

 

[framed]

And the evidence of what many in the the lower falls community think of Gerry Adams isnt in a few paint bombs . Its in the fact he abandoned west Belfast ..were he lives...for politics in Co Louth..were he doesnt live . He simply cant face the people on their doorsteps there .

And, as yet, no apparent electoral backlash against his political party... Clearly Sinn Fein's political support base is a sustainable one and continues with or without Gerry Adams at the helm. Sinn Fein won't be defeated or outflanked on the republican side by legal or military means, the answer is political.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_West_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_West_(Assembly_constituency)

 

[N_igma]

Eirigi polled over 2,000 votes in the Falls districts in the 2011 Belfast Council elections. Also just because Sinn Fein are winning doesn't mean that everyone is happy with them. If there's no alternative people just won't vote or will do what I have done in the past and vote Sinn Fein anyway as a best of a bad bunch option.

I think the best way to gauge opinion is to actually ask people on the ground and the general consensus in many areas is that Sinn Fein are alienating their traditional voting base. Not that I would go as far as Casually Red goes but there is simmering anger and frustration amongst ordinary Republicans.

 

[Joe Reilly]

lets get this straight...is it his sister in law or his niece your calling an historic enemy here ? There arent any allegations of Gerry Adams involvement in a pedophilia scandal . Its been proven beyond any doubt the man was extremely close to someone he knew was a child rapist for over 20 years . And covered it up . And reported the childs mother to the social services .

Adams/McConville/IRA membership/child-rapist brother make front page headlines in The Independent today. Again.

MI5, (presumably) going that extra mile to ensure a thumping SF victory.

i doubt very much its my posts that have anything to do with that . Your hero simply isnt everyone elses , hes utterly despised by many republicans ...particularly in west belfast...and rightly so .

Nobody claimed any teenagers faced anyone down, they simply refused to be faced down themselves. Again your at it with the fictions and strawmen . And the evidence of what many in the the lower falls community think of Gerry Adams isnt in a few paint bombs . Its in the fact he abandoned west Belfast ..were he lives...for politics in Co Louth..were he doesnt live . He simply cant face the people on their doorsteps there .

Why dosen't he move to Louth then?

 

[Joe Reilly]

Eirigi polled over 2,000 votes in the Falls districts in the 2011 Belfast Council elections. Also just because Sinn Fein are winning doesn't mean that everyone is happy with them. If there's no alternative people just won't vote or will do what I have done in the past and vote Sinn Fein anyway as a best of a bad bunch option.

I think the best way to gauge opinion is to actually ask people on the ground and the general consensus in many areas is that Sinn Fein are alienating their traditional voting base. Not that I would go as far as Casually Red goes but there is simmering anger and frustration amongst ordinary Republicans.

What is the voter base in the Falls district?

 

[N_igma]

What is the voter base in the Falls district?

Predominately working class nationalist/republican.

 

[Joe Reilly]

Predominately working class nationalist/republican.

So I gather. What I meant to ask, was the size, numbers wise, of the 'Falls district' constituency, order to gauge the Eirigi impact.

 

[N_igma]

So I gather. What I meant to ask, was the size, numbers wise, of the 'Falls district' constituency, order to gauge the Eirigi impact.

They got 9-10% of the vote in those districts.

 

[steeplejack]

So I gather. What I meant to ask, was the size, numbers wise, of the 'Falls district' constituency, order to gauge the Eirigi impact.

This list here suggests that Lower + Upper Falls electoral districts equals c. 54,000 people.

 

[Joe Reilly]

They got 9-10% of the vote in those districts.

Fair enough. But if the disaffection is as you say, they really ought to be getting double that. Indeed winning Cllrs here and there would be an even better way of keeping SF honest.

 

[N_igma]

Fair enough. But if the disaffection is as you say, they really ought to be getting double that. Indeed winning Cllrs here and there would be an even better way of keeping SF honest.

Aye. We'll find out on Friday after the council elections to see if they've managed to make any ground. There's a few 'dissidents' running across the board so we'll evaluate then.

 

[j.patterson]

Fair enough. But if the disaffection is as you say, they really ought to be getting double that. Indeed winning Cllrs here and there would be an even better way of keeping SF honest.

See that cunt Mr Mguinness....I was with 2 IRA former prisoners today who were serving life in Portlious prison....and the stroy I heard of how that cunt directly intervened to have them fucked by the irish special branch is discraceful..ive seen the "com"that went into the prison from him....and while I have to be careful....the O.C. of the IRA prisoners there on Mguinnes orders informed the special branch of an escape plot and had it stopped in its tracks.....and thats a fucking fact

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/20...arch-constantly-playing-in-gerry-adamss-head/

 

[framed]

Eirigi polled over 2,000 votes in the Falls districts in the 2011 Belfast Council elections. Also just because Sinn Fein are winning doesn't mean that everyone is happy with them. If there's no alternative people just won't vote or will do what I have done in the past and vote Sinn Fein anyway as a best of a bad bunch option.

I think the best way to gauge opinion is to actually ask people on the ground and the general consensus in many areas is that Sinn Fein are alienating their traditional voting base. Not that I would go as far as Casually Red goes but there is simmering anger and frustration amongst ordinary Republicans.

I agree that there is simmering anger and frustration among a section of republican political activists, but the most recent electoral results suggest that this antagonism towards Sinn Fein has yet to find a mass base. Outside of one or two areas there appears to have been little impact made on the Sinn Fein vote.

NI Local Election Results 2014

 

[N_igma]

I agree that there is simmering anger and frustration among a section of republican political activists, but the most recent electoral results suggest that this antagonism towards Sinn Fein has yet to find a mass base. Outside of one or two areas there appears to have been little impact made on the Sinn Fein vote.

NI Local Election Results 2014

Aye that's true, few good results for Republican independents but little impact overall. I still have absolutely no idea what Sinn Fein's strategy is for a United Ireland. Does anyone know? Their politics seems to revolve around building on the peace process, ok now what? That's why I'm angry with them they're sitting in Stormont doing fuck all for the Republican cause and seem to be more focused on getting seats than core Republican principles.

 

[framed]

Aye that's true, few good results for Republican independents but little impact overall. I still have absolutely no idea what Sinn Fein's strategy is for a United Ireland. Does anyone know? Their politics seems to revolve around building on the peace process, ok now what? That's why I'm angry with them they're sitting in Stormont doing fuck all for the Republican cause and seem to be more focused on getting seats than core Republican principles.

Their basic strategy appears to be to continue to build their electoral position north and south, thereby making Irish unity an almost inevitable outcome. I think it's mistaken myself, but it's the only strategy that I can see... The 26 Counties is key to this because they have largely reached an electoral ceiling point in the 6 Counties imho. They're now banking on being part of a coalition government with FF at some point and pushing 'the republican agenda' and Peace Process PLC, increasing the pressure on the British and Irish states. It's Redmondism by another name imho.

 

[8den]

Their basic strategy appears to be to continue to build their electoral position north and south, thereby making Irish unity an almost inevitable outcome.

I don't see how SF being part of a coalition govt will further the goal of Irish Unity. When it was put to a referendum the overwhelming majority of voters in the south agreed to remove our claim to NI from our constitution.

 

[Limerick Red]

I don't see how SF being part of a coalition govt will further the goal of Irish Unity. When it was put to a referendum the overwhelming majority of voters in the south agreed to remove our claim to NI from our constitution.

And we all know about how the free state governent insist on taking our first answer in referendums, whether they like it or not!

 

[Pickman's model]

Their basic strategy appears to be to continue to build their electoral position north and south, thereby making Irish unity an almost inevitable outcome. I think it's mistaken myself, but it's the only strategy that I can see... The 26 Counties is key to this because they have largely reached an electoral ceiling point in the 6 Counties imho. They're now banking on being part of a coalition government with FF at some point and pushing 'the republican agenda' and Peace Process PLC, increasing the pressure on the British and Irish states. It's Redmondism by another name imho.

on the other hand at least this sort of redmondism is probably going to get fewer people killed than happened when redmond said 'why not join the british army to fight for the rights of small nations' or similar. not that it's going to work, mind - cloud cuckoo land to think that a term in govt in dublin for sf will lead to the unravelling of the historic ties of the union. more like a sign that someone's mind is unravelling imo

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't see how SF being part of a coalition govt will further the goal of Irish Unity. When it was put to a referendum the overwhelming majority of voters in the south agreed to remove our claim to NI from our constitution.

what'll happen is sf will be in power for years until the unionists say 'ok, we see there's nothing to fear' and then a week before the unification of the island the workers party will sweep into power and all bets will be off.

 

[Joe Reilly]

I don't see how SF being part of a coalition govt will further the goal of Irish Unity. When it was put to a referendum the overwhelming majority of voters in the south agreed to remove our claim to NI from our constitution.

'Republicans in government north and south by 2016' is the interim goal. If that happens then the border and all it represents becomes more than a little translucent. Especially for Unionism. Talk about a body blow.
Ever after, they would be forced to ask, probably on daily basis: 'what is what they were fighting to hold onto again?'

Symbolism apart, it follows that without an assertive and confident Unionist majority (and SF is already the best supported party in the Six, remember) the link with the 'mainland' begins to atrophy all by itself. And once it starts there is nothing anyone from either side will be able to do to repair it. Even if they wanted to.
So it's not really about putting making or removing constitutional claims. It's really not about convincing Unionists or the Brits much less the free staters.
What SF body language indicates is that with the interim goal in place, they see it happening piecemeal, without fanfare, and in an unforced matter of fact type of way.

 

[Casually Red]

on the other hand at least this sort of redmondism is probably going to get fewer people killed than happened when redmond said 'why not join the british army to fight for the rights of small nations' or similar. not that it's going to work, mind - cloud cuckoo land to think that a term in govt in dublin for sf will lead to the unravelling of the historic ties of the union. more like a sign that someone's mind is unravelling imo

it doesnt matter whether one person votes for them or a million do. The fact is they dont and cant challenge Britians right to violate Irish sovereignty . They have completely abandoned the basis for any such challenge, and indeed the basis that Irish sovereignty is even being violated at all. A sinn fein government wont be any different from a Fianna Fail government. The strategy for a united Ireland is exactly the same in both cases. Ray Burke and Bertie Ahern egotiated the Belfast Agreement from the nationalist perspective, not Gerry Adams.
As youve correctly pointed out its just more constitutional nationalism, Redmondism. And Redmonds Nationalist Party was itself a political behemoth with over 80 percent of the vote accross all 32 counties. Not one fuck did it matter as upholding Irish sovereignty and a challenge to the violation of Irish sovereignty wasnt anywhere in their platform.

 

[Casually Red]

Aye that's true, few good results for Republican independents but little impact overall. I still have absolutely no idea what Sinn Fein's strategy is for a United Ireland. Does anyone know? Their politics seems to revolve around building on the peace process, ok now what? That's why I'm angry with them they're sitting in Stormont doing fuck all for the Republican cause and seem to be more focused on getting seats than core Republican principles.

they dont have one. Its that simple.

anyways, Gary Donelly topped the poll in Derrys Creggan. Widescale dissident opposition to engaging in electoralism aside thats an example of a constituency that cant be ignored forever.

 

[Casually Red]

They got 9-10% of the vote in those districts.

the vast majority of republicans Ive spoken to..outside of eirigi anyway ..are as deeply distrustful of electoralism as a tactic as the provos traditionally were. And thats been the case for years, not just recently. Plain and simple most activists are opposed to it, even those who are happy to see Donnelly topping the poll and Hyland holding the balance of power in Newry are still deeply uncomfortable with that being any kind of way ahead, and I dont believe it ever will be . And you only need look at how the shinners turned out...as was predicted...to see why many people take that position .

 

[likesfish]

it doesnt matter whether one person votes for them or a million do. The fact is they dont and cant challenge Britians right to violate Irish sovereignty . They have completely abandoned the basis for any such challenge, and indeed the basis that Irish sovereignty is even being violated at all. A sinn fein government wont be any different from a Fianna Fail government. The strategy for a united Ireland is exactly the same in both cases. Ray Burke and Bertie Ahern egotiated the Belfast Agreement from the nationalist perspective, not Gerry Adams.
As youve correctly pointed out its just more constitutional nationalism, Redmondism. And Redmonds Nationalist Party was itself a political behemoth with over 80 percent of the vote accross all 32 counties. Not one fuck did it matter as upholding Irish sovereignty and a challenge to the violation of Irish sovereignty wasnt anywhere in their platform.

Well partition happened a violent campaign failed after 30 years of bloodshed even no if a border poll was held the north would remain british

 

[8den]

the vast majority of republicans Ive spoken to..outside of eirigi anyway ..

The vast majority of militant republicans are still a tiny minority in Ireland.

 

[Pickman's model]

The vast majority of militant republicans are still a tiny minority in Ireland.

militant republicans, people prepared to take up arms, have always been a tiny minority in ireland, be it in 1916, 1918, 1919, 1921 or 1981 let alone 2014.

 

[Joe Reilly]

Well partition happened a violent campaign failed after 30 years of bloodshed even no if a border poll was held the north would remain british

Conveniently, your forgetting that the original 'violent campaign' initiated in 1916, despite the use mass terror by the British State, was successful. Eventually. And the second phase, will be successful too. Eventually.

 

[likesfish]

Bwhahaha
Any change of goverment is going to happen by peaceful democratic means or not at all.
I have no problem with that at all.
Violent repbulicanism take a hike