Gerry Adams exposed , his lies demolished at brothers rape trial

[Joe Reilly]

Bwhahaha
Any change of goverment is going to happen by peaceful democratic means or not at all.
I have no problem with that at all.
Violent repbulicanism take a hike

What you are seemingly unable or unwilling to accept is that for unity (which is what we are talking about) to be achieved 'by peaceful and democratic means', a period (or two if you like) of physical force republicanism was required to begin with.

 

[likesfish]

No it wasnt th troubles was a complete mistake from start to finish and achieved fuck all.

 

[8den]

Conveniently, your forgetting that the original 'violent campaign' initiated in 1916, despite the use mass terror by the British State, was successful. Eventually. And the second phase, will be successful too. Eventually.

That violent campaign had widespread popular support. The Republican couldn't afford reunification now even if there was widespread support for the idea (beyond vague generic support for the ideal).

 

[Limerick Red]

That's a nonsense that's regularly trotted out, can they afford Leitrim? Or Monaghan?

 

[Joe Reilly]

No it wasnt th troubles was a complete mistake from start to finish and achieved fuck all.

Partition was the real mistake...

...encouraging Protestant supremacy, a mistake, the Curragh mutiny a mistake, gerrymandering a mistake, sending the troops back in a mistake, internment a mistake, the UDR a mistake, Bloody Sunday a mistake, the Dublin/Monaghan bombings a mistake, RUC a mistake, removing political status a mistake...

 

[8den]

That's a nonsense that's regularly trotted out, can they afford Leitrim? Or Monaghan?

Well if it's there's a option get rid of Letrim as well....

It's not nonsense.
The North cost's the UK taxpayer something like 5 billion a year in subsidies. The state is the largest employer directly employing nearly a third of the workforce. The republic simply can't afford to absorb that.

Are Unionists going to embrace the republic if it means losing things like the NHS? Free Prescriptions? No Council Tax?

What do you suggest we do, lower the North's standard of living to met the republic, or raise the standard of living in the republic to match the north (and find this additional cash where exactly?)

 

[Idris2002]

Why do you assume that reunification must consist of the sudden absorption of the north by the south?

 

[N_igma]

Why do you assume that reunification must consist of the sudden absorption of the north by the south?

He's full of shit. One minute he's saying the north is that bad the south can't handle it then the very next he says there's a higher standard of living there.

 

[Idris2002]

He's full of shit. One minute he's saying the north is that bad the south can't handle it then the very next he says there's a higher standard of living there.

Well, in fairness he sees that as a function of the UK subsidy. His wider underlying point appears to be that there is no way the present situation could ever change in either part of Ireland, which is a debatable point.

 

[Limerick Red]

To paraphrase Connolly: it's not our job to manage capitalism

 

[dylanredefined]

Partition was the real mistake...

...encouraging Protestant supremacy, a mistake, the Curragh mutiny a mistake, gerrymandering a mistake, sending the troops back in a mistake, internment a mistake, the UDR a mistake, Bloody Sunday a mistake, the Dublin/Monaghan bombings a mistake, RUC a mistake, removing political status a mistake...

I don't think many would disagree. The troubles didn't help.

 

[8den]

Why do you assume that reunification must consist of the sudden absorption of the north by the south?

How slowly do you think it will happen? 10 years? 20? 50?

He's full of shit. One minute he's saying the north is that bad the south can't handle it then the very next he says there's a higher standard of living there.

No you either can't read or dont seem to think in any semblance of nuance.

A major part of the reason the north is in good shape now is the massive subsidies the UK govt puts into it. Subsidies that the Republic could not sustain.

How are SF going to pitch this so the Unionist majority won't kick off?

Join your Papist neighbours in the south! Lose your Job and Superior Health Care!

Hell if you asked "hardline republicans" would they want reunification if it cost massive layoffs and a drop in standard in living and see how they'd go for it.

Everyone likes the idea of a united ireland (well aside from the Unionists) no one is willing to pay for it.

 

[8den]

To paraphrase Connolly: it's not our job to manage capitalism

"We want a United Ireland and We Want Someone Else to Figure Out How to Pay for It!"

Can't see that on a banner.

 

[Idris2002]

How slowly do you think it will happen? 10 years? 20? 50?

We could have had an all-Ireland transport authority in the GFA, but the Shinners decided they wanted a firmer Irish language guarantee written into the agreement.

We could still have that tomorrowm if the will was there.

How much longer do you think the UK subsidy to NI will last, btw? 50 years? 20? 10?

 

[8den]

We could have had an all-Ireland transport authority in the GFA, but the Shinners decided they wanted a firmer Irish language guarantee written into the agreement.

There's messed up priorities.

How much longer do you think the UK subsidy to NI will last, btw? 50 years? 20? 10?

No idea, probably as long as its cheaper than the alternatives. Its entirely possible that in 30 years time the political landscape will be completely different and the possibility will be there. I sincerely doubt intransigent hardline unionism will disappear in my lifetime.

 

[Limerick Red]

"We want a United Ireland and We Want Someone Else to Figure Out How to Pay for It!"

Can't see that on a banner.

Isn't that why we voted for the Nice-Bon treaty , after 72 attempts to get a multiple choice question with two possible answers correct.
Let the EEC pay for it.

 

[N_igma]

No you either can't read or dont seem to think in any semblance of nuance.

A major part of the reason the north is in good shape now is the massive subsidies the UK govt puts into it. Subsidies that the Republic could not sustain.

How are SF going to pitch this so the Unionist majority won't kick off?

Join your Papist neighbours in the south! Lose your Job and Superior Health Care!

Hell if you asked "hardline republicans" would they want reunification if it cost massive layoffs and a drop in standard in living and see how they'd go for it.

Everyone likes the idea of a united ireland (well

Are these things not negotiable once a United Ireland happens. Who says we have to follow the southern model now? Why not create our own model?

 

[Idris2002]

There's messed up priorities.

Possibly, but not necessarily. It might be defensible as a necessary measure to secure support for the GFA in the key areas where SF had its greatest following at the time.

Its entirely possible that in 30 years time the political landscape will be completely different and the possibility will be there. I sincerely doubt intransigent hardline unionism will disappear in my lifetime.

You don't plan on living another three decades, then? Live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse, is it?

 

[8den]

Isn't that why we voted for the Nice-Bon treaty , after 72 attempts to get a multiple choice question with two possible answers correct.
Let the EEC pay for it.

I'm not sure which treaty you voted for which time, but if the outcome of the Nice treaty made a United Ireland more possible why did SF campaign against it twice?

EEC? FFS!

 

[8den]

Possibly, but not necessarily. It might be defensible as a necessary measure to secure support for the GFA in the key areas where SF had its greatest following at the time.

Yeah because the GFA didn't pass with overwhelming support in Republican areas and in the Republic.

You don't plan on living another three decades, then? Live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse, is it?

My life expectancy is somewhere between another 30-40 years, I think you're just splitting hairs now.

 

[8den]

Are these things not negotiable once a United Ireland happens. Who says we have to follow the southern model now? Why not create our own model?

Who is we? I merely ask because you seem to be rejecting the models currently being used by both the countries you're so desperate to united.

Don't you think the people living here should have a say in this?

 

[Limerick Red]

Who is we? I merely ask because you seem to be rejecting the models currently being used by both the countries you're so desperate to united.

Don't you think the people living here should have a say in this?

What about those of us who don't live there because of the current model, what about our families we are sending half out wages home too, the model sure as fuck isn't workin for them. What about our brothers who are sitting a home twiddling their fuckin thumbs because of the model, and the amount if people topping themselves...in every local paper , every week, because of the model.., a united Ireland will solve nothing in itself but it is the first step.

 

[N_igma]

Who is we? I merely ask because you seem to be rejecting the models currently being used by both the countries you're so desperate to united.

Don't you think the people living here should have a say in this?

The people of Ireland.

 

[8den]

What about those of us who don't live there because of the current model, what about our families we are sending half out wages home too, the model sure as fuck isn't workin for them. What about our brothers who are sitting a home twiddling their fuckin thumbs because of the model, and the amount if people topping themselves...in every local paper , every week, because of the model.., a united Ireland will solve nothing in itself but it is the first step.

Thats chicken and egg logic.

1. United Ireland
2. ????

3. Profit!

 

[8den]

The people of Ireland.

Have you met the people of Ireland? The majority of them have been electing a conservative center right government into power for 7 decades.

 

[N_igma]

Have you met the people of Ireland? The majority of them have been electing a conservative center right government into power for 7 decades.

No what are they like I hear there's leprechauns running about any truth in that lol?

 

[8den]

No what are they like I hear there's leprechauns running about any truth in that lol?

Ignore the salient point if you must. But face the fact that militant republicanism striving for a United Ireland is a tiny minority in Ireland.

 

[N_igma]

Ignore the salient point if you must. But face the fact that militant republicanism striving for a United Ireland is a tiny minority in Ireland.

Was that your point? I thought we were talking about what a United Ireland might look like. Anyway I agree that militant republicanism is not a useful course of action in the current climate. However I believe in the right of the Irish people to use force if necessary and I won't call anyone who does a traitor unlike that cunt McGuinness.

 

[Joe Reilly]

A major part of the reason the north is in good shape now is the massive subsidies the UK govt puts into it.

Surely when an artificial and arbitrary statlet requires "massive subsidies" it is self-evidently not in "good shape".

 

[8den]

Was that your point? I thought we were talking about what a United Ireland might look like.

If you ignore the dominant political and social outlook in Ireland is small "c" conservative.

Anyway I agree that militant republicanism is not a useful course of action in the current climate. However I believe in the right of the Irish people to use force if necessary and I won't call anyone who does a traitor unlike that cunt McGuinness.

Head/face palm.