General Election 2015 - chat, predictions, results and post election discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, Pickman's, in my judgement, the Iraq War, which killed hundreds of thousands of people and has left Iraq in an abject mess, continuing to add to the body count long after it ended, is the single biggest catastrophe of the Blair years.

To compare that to the expenses scandal is utterly absurd. It's pretty offensively absurd.

And again, in my judgement, every single member of the cabinet who did not resign over that war, ie everyone except Cook, is irreversibly tainted. It's a clear line for me. It makes me fucking angry to think about it, even now.

The day of the final march, the 2 million person shuffle, I genuinely thought we would stop the war. Something died that day. A certain sadness descended.
And it is still there, 12 years later.

 

[oryx]

This aspiration narrative assumes that all people are striving to "better themselves" in financial terms. Is an aspiration to build a progressive society no longer acceptable?

That's what I was thinking with all the talk (on here & elsewhere) of appealing to the middle class, most of whom don't have too much to worry about unlike users of food banks, people on benefits, zero hours contracts, the lot.

It's as if selfishness is the norm and the middle class aspirational voters are a sacred cow.

 

[Greebo]

michael gove in every cell? <snip>

Shred, liquidise, and make into the equivalent of a homeopathic formula. Enough to dose every convict in the UK for centuries to come with the best of human values.

 

[Theisticle]

LOL Mirror journalist advocates joining the DUP or Ukip to fight back against the Tories.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/7-ways-make-difference-you-5672059

 

[Wilf]

Shred, liquidise, and make into the equivalent of a homeopathic formula. Enough to dose every convict in the UK for centuries to come with the best of human values.

Essence of Gove, the new fragrance for Christmas 2015.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

LOL Mirror journalist advocates joining the DUP or Ukip to fight back against the Tories.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/7-ways-make-difference-you-5672059

I think you are reaching a bit there.

 

[Greebo]

LOL Mirror journalist advocates joining the DUP or Ukip to fight back against the Tories. <snip>

There's as much point to that as IMHO there ever was to women copying the worst bits of macho culture in the workplace to try and be accepted or to get ahead.

Mark 8:36-37 (King James version) "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

 

[bi0boy]

That's what I was thinking with all the talk (on here & elsewhere) of appealing to the middle class, most of whom don't have too much to worry about unlike users of food banks, people on benefits, zero hours contracts, the lot.

It's as if selfishness is the norm and the middle class aspirational voters are a sacred cow.

What about all the working class "aspirational" voters. You know, those denizens of Basildon that both Thatcher and Blair won over.

 

[Belushi]

There's nothing wrong with being aspirational, Union leaders used to talk about the aspirations of their members all the time when I was a kid.

The problem is that thirty years of dog eat dog capitalism have left people convinced that aspirations are an individual thing achieved by fucking someone else over, rather than something best achieved moving forward as a class.

 

[oryx]

What about all the working class "aspirational" voters. You know, those denizens of Basildon that both Thatcher and Blair won over.

It's not aspiration per se that I mean - it's the disproportionate bowing-down to it to the exclusion of a lot else.

 

[treelover]

It seems to me that we all paid much too little attention to the ground war, accepting the viral assertion on social media that Labour, inspired by its US election guru David Axelrod, was winning the grassroots battle as Obama had in 2008. In fact, it was the Tories who were quietly prevailing on this front: Grant Shapps, the Tory chairman, had organised a “team 2015” force of 100,000 volunteers, loosely modelled on the London 2012 Games Makers, dispatched to 100 key locations on “Super Saturdays”. In the last week of campaigning, Shapps predicted to Cameron, George Osborne and Lynton Crosby, the party’s electoral mastermind, that the Tories would win 300 seats. On polling day the same inner circle was made quietly aware that the result was going to be even better.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...conservative-welfare-cameron#comment-51909135

Ancona in the Guardian, I really didn't know they had that sort of manpower, 100,000 in the field! .I think we underestimate the Tories, maybe even Michael Green

 

[Pickman's model]

Ancona in the Guardian, I really didn't know they had that sort of manpower, 100,000 in the field! .I think we underestimate the Tories, maybe even Michael Green

next time we just need to follow these super saturdays and make one or two of them extra special

 

[chilango]

Ancona in the Guardian, I really didn't know they had that sort of manpower, 100,000 in the field! .I think we underestimate the Tories, maybe even Michael Green

I know of at least one person who volunteered to help the Conservative campaign in their constituency despite not being a Party member, in fact despite being historically a Labour voter. Their motivations were partly political but mainly to support the individual candidate regardless of Party affiliation. I would expect the Tories to be quite good at mobilising via "the community" in some of their seats. Utilising all kinds of old school social networks (churches, clubs etc.) the old CP could do this too.

 

[treelover]

yes, a lot of people on the reddit page said they were voting for their candidate, the Tory 'family' used to number many 100,000's,

Having said that, the coalition acted as the Nasty Party, but the public generally weren't aware of this, this is a failing for the Labour Party, but also the considerable number of activists who chose other priorities the last five years.

 

[Lord Camomile]

There's nothing wrong with being aspirational, Union leaders used to talk about the aspirations of their members all the time when I was a kid.

The problem is that thirty years of dog eat dog capitalism have left people convinced that aspirations are an individual thing achieved by fucking someone else over, rather than something best achieved moving forward as a class.

Exactly, you can have aspirations far beyond making money for yourself.

Rather than secure your own future, you can secure everyone's, for fuck's sake.

 

[Pickman's model]

Exactly, you can have aspirations far beyond making money for yourself.

Rather than secure your own future, you can secure everyone's, for fuck's sake.

even the fascists recognise that for fuck's sake, in the 14 words. although there are a lot of people who they wouldn't want in that future...

 

[Lord Camomile]

even the fascists recognise that for fuck's sake, in the 14 words. although there are a lot of people who they wouldn't want in that future...

I was unaware of these 14 words. Not quite the future I was talking about...

 

[Pickman's model]

I was unaware of these 14 words. Not quite the future I was talking about...

no. but it shows that even bloody awful people can still have more solidarity with each other than tory voters.

 

[oryx]

Galloway challenging election result!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32685844

 

[JimW]

We can enjoy watching him lose twice!

 

[treelover]

Smith is back!

 

[mk12]

yes, a lot of people on the reddit page said they were voting for their candidate, the Tory 'family' used to number many 100,000's,

Having said that, the coalition acted as the Nasty Party, but the public generally weren't aware of this, this is a failing for the Labour Party, but also the considerable number of activists who chose other priorities the last five years.

Is it really a lack of awareness and knowledge? Or did voters simply agree with welfare cuts?

 

[Grandma Death]

Ian Duncan Smith reappointed as Minister For Work and Pensions..fucks sake

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Is it really a lack of awareness and knowledge? Or did voters simply agree with welfare cuts?

Easier to agree with the cuts when you don't know anyone directly affected by them, when you don't feel the human cost.

 

[treelover]

Anyone listen to LBC (London radio channel) Friday night. One poor guy who was registered blind phoned in to say he was worried about having his benefit cut, to which the Tory MP replied "that's democracy". I kid you not. Now, will anyone deny they aren't the nasty party.

Anyone else hear this?, posted on another forum

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ian Duncan Smith reappointed as Minister For Work and Pensions..fucks sake

As I said to Greebo on Saturday, Cameron had Hobson's Choice - Dunked-in Shit didn't want any other role, and because of Shit's approval ratings with the (parliamentary and constituency) Party membership, Cameron wasn't going to risk aggro over leaving Shit out in the cold.
Fuck knows why the party membership like the psychopathic little zealot cunt. Actually, perhaps it's because he's a psychopathic little zealot cunt.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

he's not that little - about six foot and very broad shouldered.

 

[chilango]

Is it really a lack of awareness and knowledge? Or did voters simply agree with welfare cuts?

Some voters "agree" with them in as much as they don't see any other choice...."but we have to balance the the books", "we can't spend more than we earn" etc etc. There's neither compassion nor malice in their rationale.

 

[two sheds]

As I said to Greebo on Saturday, Cameron had Hobson's Choice - Dunked-in Shit didn't want any other role, and because of Shit's approval ratings with the (parliamentary and constituency) Party membership, Cameron wasn't going to risk aggro over leaving Shit out in the cold.
Fuck knows why the party membership like the psychopathic little zealot cunt. Actually, perhaps it's because he's a psychopathic little zealot cunt.

Or they stood him down temporarily so it didn't look like they were actually going for the big welfare cuts during the election runup.

 

[ibilly99]

Ancona in the Guardian, I really didn't know they had that sort of manpower, 100,000 in the field! .I think we underestimate the Tories, maybe even Michael Green

Ashcroft was spending millions on deep polling in the swing seats with weekly 1000 telephone polls in each constituency. The database had a load of datapoints for each person , age , income, family members, occupation and much more. So messaging could be personally tailored to the recipients hopes, fears and aspirations. In my constituency of Dulwich and Norwood just got bog standard leaflets from the parties , no calls either at the door or on the phone because as a safe labour it wasn't worth the candle. These tools will just get better and more expensive and the Conservatives along with their 100,000 doorsteppers used them to devastating effect.