General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat

[LDC]

Private companies exist to create profit for shareholders, that's their whole reason for being, would anybody be remotely surprised if there was a headline a few months from now about workers at one of these companies skipping a few steps in quality control because they were under pressure from above to get as many tests done as possible in a short period of time because there was a sudden increase in demand and not enough skilled employees to deal with it?

The people providing tests around me tend to be smaller businesses who have seen a niche and quickly acted to fill it, so not any connected to contracts or Tory donors and mostly no shareholders, so I think saying that's the reason it's happening the way it is is erroneous.

I agree with what's been said re: NHS capacity that currently shouldn't be used for people going on holiday. If the price puts some people off going away then I'm afraid that has some advantages currently. It is shit in some ways, but given all the other disasters going on moaning about people having to pay for PCR tests to go on holiday is at the bottom of my list tbh.

 

[Yossarian]

I agree with what's been said re: NHS capacity that currently shouldn't be used for people going on holiday.

There's also an argument to be made for not allowing your country to become a fucking plague pit that exports infectious COVID variants around the world, tbf.

 

[LDC]

There's also an argument to be made for not allowing your country to become a fucking plague pit that exports infectious COVID variants around the world, tbf.

Yes, I think we can agree on that!

 

[Supine]

So, my sister has decided it’s ok tomorrow when she arrives on holiday to have four kids with her. Three of them from three other households. I’m right to feel pissed off about this hopefully?

 

[crossthebreeze]

The NHS worker in that article claims she has regular PCR testing at work, but IIRC NHS workers are only getting twice weekly lateral flow tests, that's certainly what's happening at my local hospital, the fact the test didn't have the letters 'PCR' on it suggests it was a lateral flow test.

I am not convinced that those travelling should have their tests subsidised by the rest of us.

All care home staff now get one PCR test and at least two lateral flow tests per week, and I think those that do very high risk work in the NHS are the same. The tests are meant to be on a strict regular schedule for the whole care home/ward though, so they won't want people manipulating the schedule round doing a PCR x hours before their flight and y days after their return.

 

[existentialist]

Not got a problem with that, but I still can not support the idea the NHS should subsidise people's holidays, when they have far bigger priorities, not least catching up on the backlog of people needing hospital treatment.

Getting treatment is a right, overseas travel is a privilege.

Yebbut...if they are to be granted that privilege (which I have serious problems with a.t.m.), I think the argument that as few obstacles to testing as possible should be put in place is a valid one. Yeah, it means "we" are paying for people to ensure they are safe, but it's also about ensuring we are safe from them. The situation where someone has had a perfectly valid PCR test within the required timeframe, but because it wasn't done through a private company, it doesn't count, is utterly irrational and transparently idiotic.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I think the argument that as few obstacles to testing as possible should be put in place is a valid one. Yeah, it means "we" are paying for people to ensure they are safe, but it's also about ensuring we are safe from them.

In a ideal world, but as pointed out the NHS doesn't have the capacity, in fact there's increasing reports of the handful of private labs doing the test results are getting overwhelmed, and results are not turning up, or not turning up in time.

Imagine the mess, if they open up overseas travel even more, when the system is already close to collapse.

The situation where someone has had a perfectly valid PCR test within the required timeframe, but because it wasn't done through a private company, it doesn't count, is utterly irrational and transparently idiotic.

The woman flying to Dublin claimed she had a PCR test, but the result was not marked as being a PCR test, so was invalid for the Irish authorities.

The UK doesn't require people coming from Ireland to have a test, so this case had nothing to do with the UK rules.

 

[Badgers]

Tory billionaire bankrolled ‘herd immunity’ scientist who advised PM against lockdown

Exclusive: Johnson ruled out lockdown 24 hours after meeting with Sunetra Gupta – resulting in ‘1.3m extra COVID infections’

www.opendemocracy.net

Johnson’s apparent U-turn decision to not impose lockdown, which experts say may have resulted in an estimated 1.3 million extra COVID infections, came just 24 hours after meeting with Oxford epidemiologist Sunetra Gupta.

Today, openDemocracy can reveal that Gupta received almost £90,000 from the Georg and Emily von Opel Foundation to fund research “into the prevalence of COVID-19 in the population” in April last year.

 

[Badgers]

 

[Badgers]

Unenforceable shit and public blaming again.

I am going to a (small garden) party on Saturday in Hertfordshire, close to the Bedfordshire border. Hertfordshire has no new restrictions but a third of the guests are in Bedfordshire so can't attend under the new (sneaked out) rules.

Understand things are going south due to the #JohnsonVariant and we do have to be careful, but this is a long/carefully planned 50th wedding anniversary. Gazebo and outdoor heaters have been hired, hotel rooms booked, food, booze and cakes ordered.

We can test everyone first and break the rules but there are a few elderly people attending and the hosts are amid a nasty planning permission row with their neighbours

FFS

Update on this...

We followed the 'science' and spaced out the 13 guests outside.

The 'planning' dispute neighbour did not (to my knowledge) report us. However he spent most the afternoon and evening using noisy power tools, lawnmower, leaf blower, strimmer, etc

 

[Badgers]

 

[Badgers]

 

[Badgers]

Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove has been notified via the NHS app that he has come into contact with someone who has coronavirus.

The senior Conservative had recently returned from Portugal after supporting Chelsea in the Champions League final.

Instead of self isolating for 10 days, Mr Gove will take daily Covid tests as part of a pilot scheme designed to measure testing effectiveness.

 

[pbsmooth]

wondering if my mates wedding on the 26th is going to happen now...

 

[Badgers]

Good good

Anti-vax nurse struck off for claiming the pandemic is a hoax

She dubbed the current world health crisis a "scamdemic plandemic".

nursingnotes.co.uk

 

[Badgers]

 

[cupid_stunt]

Good good

Anti-vax nurse struck off for claiming the pandemic is a hoax

She dubbed the current world health crisis a "scamdemic plandemic".

nursingnotes.co.uk

Check out the interview with her son, I've just posted here - Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

 

[Badgers]

Kerry says: "This holiday was everything for us our first with our baby who has had no experiences in his first 18 months on this planet."

Portugal travel list: 'Let us go on holiday and live our lives'

UK travellers react with dismay and resignation as quarantine-free travel to Portugal is halted.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yeah because the 18 month old brat will suffer so much.

 

[elbows]

So many rich and vital experiences from the simplest of things during the first 18 months of life too. Theres not that much to be learnt from a trip to Portugal compared to the basics such as learning whats part of your own body, how to move it, peoples faces and their expressions, the rhythm of communication between people, how the big mess of colours before your eyes can come to be seen as distinct objects that you can interact with etc etc.

edit - my child development knowledge is a bit rusty and I may have undersold how far a child has got by 18 months. When I repeated this stuff to my mum a short time ago she went a bit further with ' a walk around the park would be sufficient stimulus for an 18 month old'.

 

[Cerv]

I'm thinking the baby would actually prefer staying at home to a 3 hour flight.

 

[Badgers]

UK records another 6,238 C19 cases

The highest daily increase for more than two months

 

[Teaboy]

UK records another 6,238 C19 cases

The highest daily increase for more than two months

Nothing in the data etc...

 

[elbows]

Nothing in the data etc...

 

[glitch hiker]

Nothing in the data etc...

Given the obvious hateful stubborn nature of that reply I have no problem believing he said "let the bodies pile high"

Every day he dithers, every hour, he is making it worse. He and the rest of the maniacs. At this point it's criminal negligence, and I'm being kind saying that. The more a lockdown is made likely, even if it's markedly less likely we'll need one, perhaps only regionally. Sorry Bolton, no wandering for you.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

My Dad had a stroke a few weeks ago, and has finally been moved out of the hospital into a rehabilitation place that's only 20 minutes down the road from us. Unfortunately that means 14 days of Covid-related quarantine, so we can't go and visit him properly until that's over.

 

[pogofish]

The ”shed bar” at the beach has been given a once-over since I was last down. Now, with the better weather they have removed some and put-in some outdoor tables and for the remaining sheds, about half have some kind of food/drinks concession in them but there appears to still be an A to E set of sheds that can be booked If you want the luxury of plastic chairs and tables.

Not had the courage too go see how the Christmas markets are doing but I’m due a prescription later in the wee, so I’ll have the pleasure then.

 

[HAL9000]

Room ventilation

There's an aritcle in the economist about room ventilation, but its behind a pay wall

Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

There has been a misunderstanding about how the virus spreads

www.economist.com

I think the paper they refer to, to support this argument is this..

Evidence for probable aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in a poorly ventilated restaurant

Background The role of aerosols in the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 remains debated. We analysed an outbreak involving three non-associated families in Restaurant X in Guangzhou, China, and assessed the possibility of aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and characterize the associated environmental...

www.medrxiv.org

Claims that a number of people caught covid due to poor ventilation

economist version of this image is...



The economist article suggests that CO2 levels should be kept below 700 ppm (outside its normally 400 ppm). Then either have lots of extractors, or if that's not possible recirculators that can kill or fillter viruses.

Seems like a plausible idea, but I'm not aware of evidence that this would work in practice.

The other idea that was missed out, positive air pressure, clean rooms operate at higher air pressure to keep dirty air out. I don't know if that's practical solution for some situations.
(or perhaps negative pressure might be better, if any air that people breathed out was sucked out of the room quickly)

 

[Petcha]

To lighten things slightly, I found out this afternoon that my company is providing us with a stylist next month who will be providing group sessions and then one on one sessions to help us with the readjustment to office life and our fashion sense after such a long time out.

I thought this was a joke but it's not. We'll be in groups of 6. I joined during Covid so nobody has really seen what a total bum I am, having wisely invested in several quality polo shirts which I keep next to the laptop and can throw on in a few seconds notice and I've never let them see the below the line, so to speak. Through the looking glass.

 

[teuchter]

Room ventilation

There's an aritcle in the economist about room ventilation, but its behind a pay wall

Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

There has been a misunderstanding about how the virus spreads

www.economist.com

I think the paper they refer to, to support this argument is this..

Evidence for probable aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in a poorly ventilated restaurant

Background The role of aerosols in the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 remains debated. We analysed an outbreak involving three non-associated families in Restaurant X in Guangzhou, China, and assessed the possibility of aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and characterize the associated environmental...

www.medrxiv.org

View attachment 272517
Claims that a number of people caught covid due to poor ventilation

economist version of this image is...

View attachment 272518

The economist article suggests that CO2 levels should be kept below 700 ppm (outside its normally 400 ppm). Then either have lots of extractors, or if that's not possible recirculators that can kill or fillter viruses.

Seems like a plausible idea, but I'm not aware of evidence that this would work in practice.

The other idea that was missed out, positive air pressure, clean rooms operate at higher air pressure to keep dirty air out. I don't know if that's practical solution for some situations.
(or perhaps negative pressure might be better, if any air that people breathed out was sucked out of the room quickly)

I don't really get what's new here - we've known for ages now that ventilation is key.

And positive or negative pressure is not really relevant here - it's rate of air change that matters.

 

[not a trot]

Lovely weekend and not a sound of an ice cream van round our way. Are they banned from plying their trade under covid rules.