Gavin Rose leaves Dulwich Hamlet and new interim coach appointed

[AveryDave]

Three weeks after Gavin Rose departed and has there been any update from the club on the process to appoint a permanent successor beyond the Chairman's notes in the Margate programme?

"Once the decision was taken on Gavin’s position I was not prepared to string things out while we lined up a replacement, I have always been open and honest and whilst I know there is a harsh reality about what goes on behind the scenes in football as managers are unveiled within days or even hours of a departure that’s not me and I hope it’s not this football club. I know that has created more uncertainty for players than I would like so our job now is to limit any further disruption and strike the right balance between taking the time to make the correct decision and moving forward as quickly as possible."

Have any candidates expressed an interest in the job or have the club proactively approached any? Have any interviews been held? Is there a timetable that an appointment is targeted to be made in? Or is it a case of hoping Barnes does okay and makes the decision for them (which would make a bit of a mockery of the comments above)?

Don't know if that's something you could update on baleboy_93?

 

[Roger D]

Knowing the club's modus operandi, we will next hear when a decision is made. In the thirty years plus I've been around the club, they have always maintained radio silence until they have an appointee.

As per the comments above, they are looking to minimise disruption. It's not possible to put a timescale on it, an appointee may have to serve notice elsewhere. Given our league position it would be daft to make it obvious to the players another managerial change loomed until any new appointee is good to go.

The job is highly attractive, you can be sure the club has had a lot of approaches. I'm very confident wheels are quietly churning. Some of the people close to the top of the club have handled a lot of managerial changes over the years. They know and understand the process.

 

[AveryDave]

Knowing the club's modus operandi, we will next hear when a decision is made. In the thirty years plus I've been around the club, they have always maintained radio silence until they have an appointee.

As per the comments above, they are looking to minimise disruption. It's not possible to put a timescale on it, an appointee may have to serve notice elsewhere. Given our league position it would be daft to make it obvious to the players another managerial change loomed until any new appointee is good to go.

The job is highly attractive, you can be sure the club has had a lot of approaches. I'm very confident wheels are quietly churning. Some of the people close to the top of the club have handled a lot of managerial changes over the years. They know and understand the process.

So we're back to communicating with supporters on the basis of how things were done decades ago? Good stuff. Who needs that pesky internet anyway!

Oh, and I'll save anyone the trouble of replying with the standard "you can find the Chairman behind the goal on match days, he's always happy to answer questions" etc. etc. etc.

 

[Roger D]

In this case I totally agree with radio silence. There's a sensitivity around a managerial appointment and it makes sense to me not to give a running commentary.

 

[AveryDave]

Keeping supporters informed is different to giving a running commentary. Most clubs find the happy medium. Would appear we’re choosing not to.

 

[B.I.G]

Keeping supporters informed is different to giving a running commentary. Most clubs find the happy medium. Would appear we’re choosing not to.

They still expect us to believe that nothing happened to trigger him going before 10 games of a new season when there was an unsigned contract on the table?

What really happened?

Or is this another thing no one cares about like how much Ben paid for his shareholding.

 

[AveryDave]

Wonder if the silence from both the club and Gavin Rose and the apparent unwillingness from the club to commit to a permanent replacement could be due to ongoing legal reasons.

It seems Gavin Rose's previous contract had expired before the start of the new season and from the club's comments they willingly offered him a new contract to continue in his role which he may well have signed.

The club would have let him continue in his role knowing that his previous contract had expired and likely knowing that he was willing to or had signed the new one they had offered.

If the club then decided to withdraw the contract before they signed and executed it, which the Chairman's statement suggests, and in the absence of any other agreement being in place, Rose could have a strong argument that either the old contract was in force by precedent or the new contract was in force by offer and acceptance and that he had therefore been wrongfully dismissed.

In those circumstances it would all be about the detail of the previous and/or new contract/s, but you'd guess a decent employment lawyer could find an angle to help their client claim some damages in all of that.

From a limited amount of experience those types of complex claims take months not weeks to sort out - and it likely wouldn't be advisable for the club to appoint a permanent replacement whilst that was playing out.

Of course that could all be wild and unfounded speculation, but nature does abhor a vacuum.

 

[B.I.G]

Wonder if the silence from both the club and Gavin Rose and the apparent unwillingness from the club to commit to a permanent replacement could be due to ongoing legal reasons.

It seems Gavin Rose's previous contract had expired before the start of the new season and from the club's comments they willingly offered him a new contract to continue in his role which he may well have signed.

The club would have let him continue in his role knowing that his previous contract had expired and likely knowing that he was willing to or had signed the new one they had offered.

If the club then decided to withdraw the contract before they signed and executed it, which the Chairman's statement suggests, and in the absence of any other agreement being in place, Rose could have a strong argument that either the old contract was in force by precedent or the new contract was in force by offer and acceptance and that he had therefore been wrongfully dismissed.

In those circumstances it would all be about the detail of the previous and/or new contract/s, but you'd guess a decent employment lawyer could find an angle to help their client claim some damages in all of that.

From a limited amount of experience those types of complex claims take months not weeks to sort out - and it likely wouldn't be advisable for the club to appoint a permanent replacement whilst that was playing out.

Of course that could all be wild and unfounded speculation, but nature does abhor a vacuum.

Interesting. Someone will be along soon to say it was all part of their well thought out plan.

 

[liamdhfc]

I’ll try to answer your points as much as is possible

The vacancy has had lots of interest without a need to advertise.

Applicants have come from many different levels of football

I have no knowledge of names which is unsurprising as some are likely to be in work so not want to make it known to their current club

On Gavin, I’ll just say why do people think it was any more than results. Backed in the summer with what he wanted and same form as second half of last season

I believe there is very little risk of litigation as my understanding is the worst case scenario would be that the old contract is deemed to have continued pending a new one. My understanding is that contract had a very short notice period.

No brush to appoint. We have a very competent interim manager in charge, doing a good job with a team that’s not his.

I’m sure interviews will start soon and that it will not take long for the new manager to be appointed.

Whilst it is good to keep fans informed there really isn’t much to inform that is of much use at present

 

[Paula_G]

Whatever happens Paul Barnes will probably be interim Dulwich Hamlet manager longer than Liz Truss will be interim Prime Minister

 

[Christian Burt]

I’m not really sure why fans would need a constant stream of updates about an appointment. It’s clearly a very desired managerial position at our level, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was interest from even ex League managers.
We’ve made a temporary interim appointment which seems a solid enough one, whether Barnes is long term or not, that’s all that’s really needed for now.

 

[AveryDave]

I’m not really sure why fans would need a constant stream of updates about an appointment. It’s clearly a very desired managerial position at our level, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was interest from even ex League managers.
We’ve made a temporary interim appointment which seems a solid enough one, whether Barnes is long term or not, that’s all that’s really needed for now.

There’s a difference between a ‘running commentary’ or a ‘constant stream of updates’ and weeks of silence following one of the biggest changes to the playing side of the club in over a decade.

liamdhfc update is greatly appreciated, as always.

 

[Christian Burt]

There’s a difference between a ‘running commentary’ or a ‘constant stream of updates’ and weeks of silence following one of the biggest changes to the playing side of the club in over a decade.

@liamdhfc’s update is greatly appreciated, as always.

I’m just not sure what else needs to be said? They’ve made an interim appointment and that in itself is the update? Just realised, Avery Dave, that I’m sounding rather full on about this, but I’m not sure what an update could consist of right now re managerial position

 

[AveryDave]

I’m just not sure what else needs to be said? They’ve made an interim appointment and that in itself is the update? Just realised, Avery Dave, that I’m sounding rather full on about this, but I’m not sure what an update could consist of right now re managerial position

Not sounding full on at all, I do get where you're coming from.

I think most have been encouraged with the better football on display since Barnes came in but on results alone we've gone out of the FA Cup at home to a team in the division below us, we've beaten a team three steps below us in the London Senior Cup, and we've moved a point outside of the relegation places in the League after beating a team who I think most would admit are struggling following promotion. To be fair to Barnes he's absolutely brought some stability whilst inheriting a squad of players that Gavin Rose put together, but at the same time he's hardly led the team on a winning streak and a charge in all competitions.

From liamdhfc comments it sounds like interviews haven't started yet - and whilst he doesn't think it'll be too long before an appointment is made is that next week? Another three weeks? A month? Two months? Another six or seven games in the League and a round or two of the FA Trophy? And then another period of adjustment whilst the process of (maybe) changing the management team takes place again? We don't know because the club isn't telling us.

So whilst things have calmed down I can't help thinking getting the permanent management team in place at the earliest opportunity would give the team, the club and the supporters even more stability and an understanding of the direction the club is taking for the remainder of the season, and would also give the Board the chance to really focus on the critical period we're in with the new ground and the judicial review. At the moment, for me at least, it's all feeling a bit like the playing side of the club is in limbo whilst the season slowly slips away and possibly distracts from even more important matters.

 

[sleaterkinney]

He’s taken over a struggling team after a manager who’s been with the club a long time and you expect a winning streak and a charge in all competitions?. Give them some time to hopefully make the right choice.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Or maybe we could have a kind of X-factor talent competition with Crouchy and Rio on Disney+ ?

 

[AveryDave]

He’s taken over a struggling team after a manager who’s been with the club a long time and you expect a winning streak and a charge in all competitions?. Give them some time to hopefully make the right choice.

Yeah, I didn't say that.

 

[baleboy_93]

As Liam has already stated, there really isn't anything to say right now, applications have been coming in, not sure why these names would be expected to be released to the public, but rest assured I will give more details when there are some to give. Sorry that currently there is no more than that!

 

[AveryDave]

As Liam has already stated, there really isn't anything to say right now, applications have been coming in, not sure why these names would be expected to be released to the public, but rest assured I will give more details when there are some to give. Sorry that currently there is no more than that!

Don't think anyone has suggested names need to be put out there publicly, that would be madness.

Look forward to an update at some point!

 

[baleboy_93]

Don't think anyone has suggested names need to be put out there publicly, that would be madness.

Look forward to an update at some point!

Sure it won't be too long, certainly not a couple of months

 

[sleaterkinney]

Yeah, I didn't say that.

but at the same time he's hardly led the team on a winning streak and a charge in all competitions

 

[AveryDave]

Oh go on then, let's have one more crack at it.

Where in that did I say I expected Barnes to lead the team on a winning streak and a charge in all competitions?

 

[Paula_G]

If the position had been advertised (which I’m guessing it hasn’t as nobody has yet posted “I saw this in the NLP”) then I might be more concerned about a lack of information coming out of the club. But personally I’m not losing any sleep over this. Given the narrow experience in Non League Football of most of our board involved in the decision making process a thorough & discrete recruitment process is the least that can be expected.

 

[Paula_G]

Well there you go. The ice has been broken by the South London Press. Hopefully we can let the club get on with the recruitment process and turn our attention to the performances on the field. Dulwich Hamlet set to interview boss candidates next week – and interim head coach Paul Barnes wants to be considered

 

[Stuart Fordyce]

That article proves how much of a mate of Gavin's the South London Press is. Littered with references to events in the past but no mention of how Barnes' 3 wins in 5 compares to Gavin's 6 in 2022. Not glossing over Folkestone but refers to the Carlisle game but not last season’s defeat to Bedfont. Made me chuckle...

 

[AveryDave]

Yeah, that reference to the Carlisle game was an interesting one. Obviously 100% true, but no more so that it was the only time in Gavin Rose's thirteen seasons that he led the team to that stage. It's all about the angle.

Given interviews start next week and the Taunton game is postponed today's game feels like it's become doubly important for Barnes - a good result would surely help his chances.

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

Whatever happens, please don't let us appoint Steve King.

Judging from afar, I think Barnes has done alright. He's inherited an absolute shitshow but going on the highlights and comments here, we seem to be playing better football. Think he interviews well and talks sense too. I nearly spat out my tea the other night when I heard Tom say on DHFC radio that someone had picked out Owusu's run - 'You mean we haven't just passed to feet or lumped it aimlessly towards Mills?!'.

Turning something like this around takes time - these guys only get a couple of hours training twice a week. That's not a lot of time to instill organistion, new ideas, and I think particularly in our case, confidence. I think the next point at which we can really undo some of the damage is next summer. If there isn't a very strong candidate now, I'd be quite happy with Barnes in charge until the summer and then seeing where we are.

Feel he's definitely someone worth keeping at the club at the very least, because his reputation for working with younger players is exceptional. Could he fill the void left by Aspire perhaps, and rebuild the club's youth system? I think for now he just needs support.

 

[AveryDave]

Whatever happens, please don't let us appoint Steve King.

Judging from afar, I think Barnes has done alright. He's inherited an absolute shitshow but going on the highlights and comments here, we seem to be playing better football. Think he interviews well and talks sense too. I nearly spat out my tea the other night when I heard Tom say on DHFC radio that someone had picked out Owusu's run - 'You mean we haven't just passed to feet or lumped it aimlessly towards Mills?!'.

Turning something like this around takes time - these guys only get a couple of hours training twice a week. That's not a lot of time to instill organistion, new ideas, and I think particularly in our case, confidence. I think the next point at which we can really undo some of the damage is next summer. If there isn't a very strong candidate now, I'd be quite happy with Barnes in charge until the summer and then seeing where we are.

Feel he's definitely someone worth keeping at the club at the very least, because his reputation for working with younger players is exceptional. Could he fill the void left by Aspire perhaps, and rebuild the club's youth system? I think for now he just needs support.

Fortunately Steve King joined Gloucester City last week. Was surely never happening but nonetheless a sigh of relief moment.

Agree with pretty much all you say on Barnes. It's easy in theory to try and get a team playing decent football but harder to give them the confidence to actually do that, especially in a short space of time and after what had gone before. The only real blot in his copybook is the Folkestone game which by his own admittance the team weren't up for.

I'm sure he'd also like to make some more changes to the squad if he gets the opportunity - although it's probably the best group we've had for many years on paper, from an attacking point of view it's far too dependant on Danny Mills, and we still look weak at the back - Vint and Holland aren't mobile enough to deal with some of the threats they face, Taylor seems to continually struggle for confidence when he should be our best centre back, and whilst Josh Hill might help with that he's so far only proved to be a wonderful way to commit what I'd imagine to be a decent contract to the treatment room. But as you say, with players on contracts the scope to make real changes could be limited, which could also impact how possible candidates see the opportunity for this season at least.

All in all Barnes has definitely given the Board a decision to make and it's testament to him and his team that he's done that. And if he doesn't get the permanent job he's the type of influence and character that would be great to keep around the club in some capacity, with responsibility for the Academy being a great shout.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Oh go on then, let's have one more crack at it.

Where in that did I say I expected Barnes to lead the team on a winning streak and a charge in all competitions?

What did you mean then?. I read it as criticism of the manager.

 

[AveryDave]

What did you mean then?. I read it as criticism of the manager.

Not trying to be difficult, but it really wasn't a criticism.

Point I was making is that if he had won all his games he'd have made it very difficult for the Board to bring someone else in and they could potentially appoint him without any need for more interviews and a further selection process.

But as it is it's not a foregone conclusion and that means more time before the process of bringing in a permanent manager is completed, and that's potentially more time lost in the season.

Actually think in the context of it all he's done a difficult job pretty well.