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G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

while pointing the finger at myself, ill make it clear i desire very much for the truth of The Murder of Ian to come out, but justice in a state of capitil will be a long time comeing..
If you keep repeating this unfounded allegation of murder you will be banned.
 
If you keep repeating this unfounded allegation of murder you will be banned.

So what was The Death of Ian, this needs to be asked and debated, there is no doubt in my mind the actions of The Police led to his death, in context there is an unfounded allegation, i have no doubt that the actions of the police will in time be proven to be what they are, i have no faith in the likes of The IPCC, but i do understand the request of editor, the desire to safe gurd urban 75, in that respect ill drop out from this conversation, as he has asked..
 
Who said one of those comments was not from us?, therefore it is a comment, just another one of your assumptions, the only justice for Ian would not be the reform or any public enq etc, it would be the complete smashing of the state, look at the protest around G20, done by fear and intimidation, perhaps if there was an anarchist movement that was organised and militant The Filth might just think twice about attacking protesters, also killing one of them, perhaps if the so called anarchist movement had done as promised it said and had a riot we might not be where we are today.
Did a (partially) united anarchist front ever give the police pause before? Of course not. They attack because they know that their paymasters will allow them to do so with relative impunity. Numbers make no difference when you have the full "majesty" of state power behind you.
All ive seen is the sheep, getting beaten attacked and kicked, it is perhaps to utopian for me to ask, where is the militant anarchist movement, there is not one and if there was would the trots as they have done be empowered by the lack of an anarchist movement of course not, this is not to remove the very good work of some anarchist, but a few dose not make a movement.

Your assumption that there is or even should be some kind of over-arching "anarchist movement" kind of misses the point of anarchism, don't you think?
 
I'm sure I'll get murdered for this, but I've always felt the working/middle class distinction, in today's society, is so facile as to be utterly bollox.
To me it depends what your distinction is based on, and what you're applying it to. Class analysis is still valid, it's just somewhat more problematic than it used to be. :)
 
To me it depends what your distinction is based on, and what you're applying it to. Class analysis is still valid, it's just somewhat more problematic than it used to be. :)
That's fair enough, and I'd broadly agree.

Was really expecting to get slaughtered, so feel like I've dodged a bullet on here tbh...!
 
And yet that is kind of what happened. But demanding that something is done about it is the right thing to do. Should we just sit back whilst the state erodes our civil liberties? Or should we demand justice and change? The fact that he died is not the fault of any proesters or anyone posting in this thread. I would rather he was alive. But we can't change the past, we can only influence the future.

wanting an overall change in policing and proably in governance in order to instigate that is quite different from wanting to use it as a stick to batter your personal poltical opponents and attempting to gain political capital and personal kudos is however entirely not in keeping with the seniment and is only making personal capital out of the situation.

which is what enumbers is doing, again, least we forget this isn't the first time that they along with others have attempted to polarise a non connected issue with their own poltical aims. ourely to score proleier than thou points with those who they'd wish to be ingratiated by...

that's why it's dispicable because it shows not only an inherant disregard for the circumstances but it also shows the rather warped viewpoint the intent comes from...

in a wider context sure the death of an innocent can be the rally cry or kick up the arse that movements people societies need to alter the manner in which they act. rarely though has something of this nature taken on such an overarching level of change historically, it would take sufficent deaths for change to be considered not the lucky* one off which happens to chime with a larger movements objectives (*Lucky in terms of it's suprising it doesn't happen all the more from the manner in which police treat people).

this isn't what enumbers is doing they are using it as another stick to bash their pantomime villans the swp...

which is sickening...

(and also places me in a position where i feel i'm defending a group who i loath intensly, because of the flagrant misuse of the death)
 
attention seeking and a poltical agenda yes i agree, mine is to ensure all those involved with the murder of Ian are dealt with
and you legitimate proposeals for doign so in a manner which withstands public scruntany and also peer review please.

in detail.




but as an anarchist i have no faith in the likes of the ippc

logical fallacy: I'm this so i believe this, and if you don't then you aren't one of us.

you being an anarchist doesn't give you mutual exclusivity to having little faith in state archtecture. indeed other than informing your poltics inside of that architecture it provides, seemingly in your individual case rather than as a general rule, a way for you to 'stand out' and differentiate yourself from your peers.

seems to me to be wearing a label rather like some wear dior. Fashion statment is it nathan?
this is just a cul de sac of nowhere

agreed but then conversations with those who disagree with your eeyore viewpoint tend to be circlar nonsense which derails threads as once again the mighty defender of the peoples: enumbers.
joining forces with other vangards is much the same cul de sac of nowhere is this distastful to point out these fact hold view a point about the murder of Ian

not at all i'm clearly pointing out distaste about people using the death for their poltical ends.

the supposed vangards which you allude are entirely different groups who aren't really associated other than by the entirely fictious merger in your own head.

in attempting to use the death to be another tool in your personal arsenal to attack your political opponents which you beleive to be wrong you are guilty of doing precisely what you claim these other groups are. and by extension you are equally, by your own standard here, gulity of policising the death for your own ends.
is it the fact it is myself that has pointed out this information
you haven't just provided information tho have you to say as such is deliberately dishonest. for the reasons already stated.

one is not giveing info on a wire where police and others read
I think if you are going to use such thinly veiled language to hide you implication you had better back that up with irrifuteable evidence or withdraw the comment. nether of which you have in the past or judging by the continuation of your stance on this issue you seem willing to do.

but those who know me also trust me
ah the old troll of i've received lot's of pm's of support, remixed.

old shit trolling tactic is old and shit.

GarfieldLeChat your actions are as just distastful and have been to de-rail the topic
dearailing by asking you to stay on topic and not attempt to politicse the death to suit your own aims...

right-o...

while pointing the finger at myself
if you wish to not be accused then simply stop doing it.

a spade is sometimes just a spade.

ill make it clear i desire very much for the truth of The Murder of Ian to come out
well firstly you'd have to prove catigorically this was a murder. secondly you'd have to involve yourself at a greater level than making wild accustations about poltical groups you dislike on bulletin boards.

but justice in a state of capitil will be a long time comeing..

if at all, however it means nothing in terms of your actions.

I'd retract or stfu if i were you...
 
Fair dos to them though they were trying some different tactics at last weekends demo..

E_fs.jpg



Sorry :oops:
 
wanting an overall change in policing and proably in governance in order to instigate that is quite different from wanting to use it as a stick to batter your personal poltical opponents and attempting to gain political capital and personal kudos is however entirely not in keeping with the seniment and is only making personal capital out of the situation.

which is what enumbers is doing, again, least we forget this isn't the first time that they along with others have attempted to polarise a non connected issue with their own poltical aims. ourely to score proleier than thou points with those who they'd wish to be ingratiated by...

that's why it's dispicable because it shows not only an inherant disregard for the circumstances but it also shows the rather warped viewpoint the intent comes from...

in a wider context sure the death of an innocent can be the rally cry or kick up the arse that movements people societies need to alter the manner in which they act. rarely though has something of this nature taken on such an overarching level of change historically, it would take sufficent deaths for change to be considered not the lucky* one off which happens to chime with a larger movements objectives (*Lucky in terms of it's suprising it doesn't happen all the more from the manner in which police treat people).

this isn't what enumbers is doing they are using it as another stick to bash their pantomime villans the swp...

which is sickening...

(and also places me in a position where i feel i'm defending a group who i loath intensly, because of the flagrant misuse of the death)

Sorry, think I may have been preaching to the converted here. I see there is some internal controversy on this thread. Was replying to one comment, not a whole thread.
 
The SWP has taken advantage of the political vacuum left by anarcho-inactivity and set up its own Justice For Ian Tomlinson campaign grafting on its usual cronies in the Muslim Association of Britain and Palestine Solidarity Campaign.

"A broad coalition of victims of police violence, together with their representatives, has recently founded The United Campaign Against Police Violence (UCAPV). The provisional committee so far comprises delegates from United Families Campaign, Inquest, RMT (London Region), Public and Commercial Services Union, University and College Lecturers Union, the newly-formed Servicemens Union, John McDonnell MP (together with the Labour Representation Committee), Jeremy Corbyn MP, Ken Livingstone, Socialist Workers' Party, Stop the War/Gaza coalition, Green Party, Liberty, Climate Camp, G20 Meltdown and Newham Monitoring Group (among others)."

Campaign website:
http://www.againstpoliceviolence.org.uk/
 
Police Oracle posters now losing the plot entirely:
It needs more than words now. Simple assurance would be greeted with disbelief. The suspended officers need to be reinstated, that woman at the G20 needs to be arrested for attempting to pervert the course of justice and the government needs to reassure the officers that they will be supported if they need to use force.

Failure to do that and I can see the possibility of this government being brought to an end by the troops. It has nearly happened before with a previous Labour government. If police feel they can no longer use force and there are riots as a result, the armed services may be forced to rescue the country. It may be an "interesting" summer.

More worrying though, is this, about FITwatch:
I would say that group are blatently targetting individuals and are encouraging violence on the targeted individuals by suggestion..... Actually, I would say that site could provide valuable information to a low level terrorist organisation or wanna be torrorists..... I say shut them down, I say identify the fit-watch organisers publically and see how they like having their faces and identities splashed all over the internet........ pah.....
Another poster then adds:
Its not great but its a start... this is *SNIP*.... I believe he is a fitwatch contributer...


*SNIP link*


and I believe he is from bedford.............

Is this not an open invitation to police intimidation and harassment? Should FITwatch be getting a heads up about this?
 
Is this not an open invitation to police intimidation and harassment? Should FITwatch be getting a heads up about this?
They may already know, but no harm in dropping a comment on the blog. :)
 
Oh my:
"The Independent Police Complaints Commission - which is questioning a police officer in connection with the death of Mr Tomlinson - sought an injunction preventing fresh pictures of events preceeding Mr Tomlinson's death from being broadcast. Tonight a judge refused to grant an injunction, and C4 News and More 4 News intend to broadcast the item tomorrow.

The report from our Home Affairs Correspondent Simon Israel includes a frame-by-frame analysis of events leading up to the moment when Mr Tomlinson was struck at by a police officer and fell to the ground.
"

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/ipcc+channel+four+injunction+fails/3102562
 
FITwatch helps to level the playing field, using legitimately obtained and publicly published material.

If police officers who think that battering someone with their hands in their pockets and walking away is cricket, well, they need to find some new playmates.

If police officers think that 'outing' people who are already the subject of highly subjective and politically-motivated briefing notes is in any way playing fair, then let them consider what the logical step is with regards to their own individual circumstances.

There is no hiding behind a uniform, a badge, a helmet, when what you do is so morally corrupt. How proud of what you do are you? Do you regale your children with stories of what you get up to, come bedtime? Do you whisper sweet nothings about your day's business into the ear of your sweetheart in the balmy eve? Does it turn you on, to think about the crack, the splintering of bone, the give of flesh beneath your mighty weapons? But what is this, but a willing victim, a faceless, meaningless foe! How legitimate my consequence-free ecstasy!
 
Police Oracle posters now losing the plot entirely:


More worrying though, is this, about FITwatch:

Another poster then adds:


Is this not an open invitation to police intimidation and harassment? Should FITwatch be getting a heads up about this?

I stopped reading Oracle, it's just plane scary to think the people writing those messages are policing our streets. There was one PC who suggested all the protesters should be doused in petrol and set on fire.

Originally Posted by plod forum user Maverick22
I have no time for these G20 demonstrators, they can spray them all with petrol as far as I am concerned, and throw in a match, most are people just out for a fight with the police.

source

There is more here: -
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8986676&postcount=28

Give's you an idea of the mentality of most police officers.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/22/new-ian-tomlinson-g20-video

"G20 protest footage shows moment Ian Tomlinson's head hit the pavement

...

The full version of the video handed to the Guardian and the IPCC shows the lead-up to the alleged assault on Tomlinson, including an incident in which a policeman appeared to grab a protester. The protester's head was then hit against the door of a police van. That sparked an angry reaction from the crowd, which began running toward Royal Exchange [Buildings].

A crucial sequence then captures the seconds leading up to the moment Tomlinson is pushed. Tomlinson is seen in the middle of Royal Exchange [Buildings], facing the advancing lines of police. His hands are in his pockets and he is standing behind a rack of bicycles. When an officer takes a dog close to him, Tomlinson turns his back.
"
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/22/new-ian-tomlinson-g20-video

"G20 protest footage shows moment Ian Tomlinson's head hit the pavement

...

The full version of the video handed to the Guardian and the IPCC shows the lead-up to the alleged assault on Tomlinson, including an incident in which a policeman appeared to grab a protester. The protester's head was then hit against the door of a police van. That sparked an angry reaction from the crowd, which began running toward Royal Exchange [Buildings].

A crucial sequence then captures the seconds leading up to the moment Tomlinson is pushed. Tomlinson is seen in the middle of Royal Exchange [Buildings], facing the advancing lines of police. His hands are in his pockets and he is standing behind a rack of bicycles. When an officer takes a dog close to him, Tomlinson turns his back.
"

Still people are saying Ian,s death was not a calculated act, with intent to harm that lead to his death?

The IPCC, that well known cop biased whitewasher, have called for a debate on police violence whilst they, ahem, 'maintain public order.'

Here we can only say alleged, but by now we all know what the actions of The Police was on that day even George Monbiot
The policing of the G20 protests at the beginning of this month was *routine. Policemen hiding their identification numbers and beating up peaceful protesters is as much a part of British life as grey skies and red buses.

This being the point it has become routine, in this circumstance it was going to lead to a death, what makes it more fucked up is the fact it was a non protester and those who was not there, and understand all to well what the actions of The Police was that day are now by follow protesters being named as dangerous and extream.

Meanwhile some walk down the cul de sac of another whitewash of The IPPC was going to seek injunctions, there job like The Police they whitewash for is to uphold the very fabric of intimidation and fear and as long as people fail to name the action of The Police on that day for what they was, Ian Tomlisons death like so many working class deaths, we seek justice for THE 96 KILLED 15 4 1989 at Sheffield’s Hillsborough football ground, not because we bleve in there justice because it exposes how and what capitalism stands for.
 
A third postmortem examination will be carried out today on the body of Ian Tomlinson, who died during the G20 protests, the City of London coroner has said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/22/ian-tomlinson-g20-protests

The scum that might have caused his death, will not let him rest be placed into the ground, even in death they ensure the suffering gose..

See here for a good update on Ian,s last moments http://www.lasthours.org.uk/news/g20-another-version-of-the-truth/ and here for good insight into The Police: Why do The Police Riot?
 
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