G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

[Blagsta]

I'd like to see CCTV footage of the alleged assault on him.

I'd like to see the CCTV footage of demonstrators "pelting" the police with bottles while they try to revive him.

 

[lights.out.london]

I'd like to see the CCTV footage of demonstrators "pelting" the police with bottles while they try to revive him.

Absolutely agree with you. Let's make sure 'our' side of the street is clean and beyond reproach, before taking on Plod

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Er, no. If an innocent man has been killed and police action may be to blame, why is anybody else required to prove not just themselves,but their "side", spotless before considering it worthy of investigation?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I'd like to see CCTV footage of the alleged assault on him.

This is a strange thing to say. Why would we assume that an incident of any kind has necessarily been captured on CCTV? Does CCTV cover all areas all of the time?

 

[tangentlama]

CCTV is like Macavity's Cat

 

[agricola]

So you've seen that, yet still think there shouldn't be any outcry over the police's actions?

[eta]
Oh yeah, I forgot, you're an "anarchist" that works in the city

Any outcry over this (ie: this incident, not the handling of the demo generally) should wait until more facts are known / the IPCC issues a preliminary report.

 

[Corax]

Now the Hate M*il are running with it too

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-violently-attacked-riot-police.html?ITO=1490

 

[bluestreak]

This is a strange thing to say. Why would we assume that an incident of any kind has necessarily been captured on CCTV? Does CCTV cover all areas all of the time?

In the City Of London? Yes. Basically it does.

 

[winjer]

Any outcry over this (ie: this incident, not the handling of the demo generally) should wait until more facts are known / the IPCC issues a preliminary report.

I bet that's exactly the same thing you'd suggest if it was one of your colleagues?

Yesterday, a CP Inspector told me I was "making up stories", "just want to blame the police", and should "stop my lying", after I'd only asked him what he was basing his version of events on, which he was angrily expounding into some poor girl's ear.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Any outcry over this (ie: this incident, not the handling of the demo generally) should wait until more facts are known / the IPCC issues a preliminary report.

Problem is, past experience suggests that the government/police PR machine will want to establish their preferred version of events firmly in the public mind without waiting for the verdict.

How many people today still think that for example the unfortunate Mr Menezes was 'wearing a bulky jacket, trailing wires and acting suspiciously'?

How many people are going to recall the more or less imaginary 'hail of thrown bottles' and think that was the cause of this unfortunate guy's death?

 

[butchersapron]

10 days to the Hillsborough 20 years anniversary.

 

[girasol]

Now the Hate M*il are running with it too

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-violently-attacked-riot-police.html?ITO=1490

I'm shocked! Now they'll really have to investigate it!

 

[agricola]

I bet that's exactly the same thing you'd suggest if it was one of your colleagues?

Yesterday, a CP Inspector told me I was "making up stories", "just want to blame the police", and should "stop my lying", after I'd only asked him what he was basing his version of events on, which he was angrily expounding into some poor girl's ear.

It is what I would suggest if it was one of my colleagues - though for that matter I would prefer an IPCC investigation and full inquest into it anyway, since even if it has happened as initially described by Police there will always be people who will claim a cover-up has occured.

What that inspector said is his business, not mine.

 

[winjer]

10 days to the Hillsborough 20 years anniversary.

8 more and it's the 30th anniversary of Blair Peach's murder.

 

[chico enrico]

Not only that, but presumably there'd be loads of empty bottles on the ground in the photos. Plus shots of police 'ducking' etc.

indeed. last wednesday was possibly the only demo i have been at over the past 25+ years years where i can honestly say that the police were at no point 'pelted' with anything, bottles or otherwise. to say they were is simply bullshit.

 

[chico enrico]

In the City Of London? Yes. Basically it does.

not to mention the extra CCTV & rooftop surveillance cameras installed specially in the build up to G20. absolutely impossible for it not to have been.

 

[albionism]

Yes i would imagine the whole of the City is covered by CCTV 24 hours a day every day.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

except for the story doing the rounds last week that all central london cctv would need to be switched off cos of some legal chicanery. peculiar as always,

 

[yield]

except for the story doing the rounds last week that all central london cctv would need to be switched off cos of some legal chicanery. peculiar as always,

Just Westminster.

Image row prompts CCTV switch-off
BBC. 30 March 2009

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

ok. still seems slightly strange that it could all have taken place off camera.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

That wouldn't affect Westminster much at all. Every fucking square inch of the borough is covered by private cameras, the footage from which can certainly be grabbed as evidence. I've tried to play "Metal Gear Solid" in Westminster, staying out of view of every camera for as long as possible, and you can go about five metres before game over.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Still, the switch-off story is extremely convenient and if it turns out that this poor guy really was killed by the cops, will provide a more believable excuse than 'all the cameras just spontaneously stopped working' when they come to exonerate the cops of all misdeeds.

 

[bezzer]

How many people today still think that for example the unfortunate Mr Menezes was 'wearing a bulky jacket, trailing wires and acting suspiciously'?

How many people are going to recall the more or less imaginary 'hail of thrown bottles' and think that was the cause of this unfortunate guy's death?

Yes Bernie, unfortunately we live in very cynical times! the police moved very fast to get their story out first, and it stinks of something unpleasent! need an inquiry into this! and if anything should emerge, then the policemen/policewomen need to be held to account and prosecuted for murder. To much background information and not enough facts!

 

[editor]

The photos in the Observer today are pretty damning. They show Tomlinson on the floor in front of a row of cops. No flying bottles can be seen and the only person helping him up is another protester.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

but isn't that the point? within the city of london, it is questionable whether there actually is film footage, because of the westminster blackout.... of course,,,,

 

[Bernie Gunther]

After all, we wouldn't want to let a little thing like video evidence of cop involvement in the death of an innocent citizen damage police morale now would we?

So of course the cameras weren't working and the police will be exonerated of any possible involvement in the poor guys death. It would be extremely naive to expect any other outcome whatever actually happened.

 

[butchersapron]

The photos in the Observer today are pretty damning. They show Tomlinson on the floor in front of a row of cops. No flying bottles can be seen and the only person helping him up is another protester.

The bottles put him, there. Hillsborough 9 days day aways from the 20 year memorial. Have things changed?

 

[_pH_]

but isn't that the point? within the city of london, it is questionable whether there actually is film footage, because of the westminster blackout.... of course,,,,

city of london != westminster

i'm not with you

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

city of london cops only police the square mile. westminster are a much bigger area.

 

[_pH_]

city of london cops only police the square mile. westminster are a much bigger area.

But city of london is not the same area as Westminster, they're 2 separate local authorities. CCTV within CoL will be the responsibility of CoL, not westminster.