Extinction Rebellion

[Gramsci]

I did have a chat with an XR at Trafalgar Square yesterday.

He had been in Occupy. I said I would like to see the XR banner in Scotland about Class and climate change. That was told here that XR Scotland were more upfront about climate change and social justice.

I di say one of the good things about XR was it gave an opportunity for people to get on with something that not everyone wanted to read books of theory all the time.

He surprised me by saying that XR should also reflect on their practice. Just doing things wasnt enough.

So I think some discussion within XR is wanted. I don't really see that happening publicly.

He did bring up the issue of XR seeming to middle class. ( The XR who I met in Marsham Street also brought this up) And the issue of some sectors of the community can't really be arrestable. It may affect their immigration status.

So Class and the policy of NVDA and arrests is something that XR is aware of.

On class. I do think given the way the world is middle class are going to dominate. I see this in the couple of community groups Im. Middle class have better resources and "social Capital". Also more time. A lot of the people I work with do long hours to make a living. Time poor.

I find it hard to do the few community things with time I've got. So whilst I'm sympathetic I've already got a lot on my plate. He understood that. This goes for a lot of people I imagine.

Climate Change isn't the priority in a neighbourhood like mine where youth services have been cut and we are arguing with Council over adventure playground, affordable housing etc.

I'm not saying XR should advocate the overthrow of capitalism. But imo to get a lot of ordinary people onboard they are going to have to explicitly link a move to a zero carbon economy to economic justice. Both here and internationally.

The XR in Marsham Street said to me he couldn't understand why Tory voters didn't see climate change as an emergency.

At present the theory behind XR is set by Hallam mainly. The literature given out is the same as last time.

The XR I talked to in Trafalgar Square wanted XR to reflect on the practise. I don't see this happening at the moment. XR isn't set up that way.

 

[Marty1]

View attachment 186715

I think that was his plan. I was quite shocked tbh.

It probably wasn’t a good idea as you rightly point out. I phrased that badly.

The worry is that protestors try to outdo each other and someone ends up being killed.

Just watched some footage of XR protests in Australia and one bloke did a sit down protest on a railway line whilst holding a homemade cardboard sign whilst another protest managed to dangle ropes off a bridge in some kind of make shift hammock.

Sky News Australia is very hostile in their coverage of XR.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I did have a chat with an XR at Trafalgar Square yesterday.

He had been in Occupy. I said I would like to see the XR banner in Scotland about Class and climate change. That was told here that XR Scotland were more upfront about climate change and social justice.

I di say one of the good things about XR was it gave an opportunity for people to get on with something that not everyone wanted to read books of theory all the time.

He surprised me by saying that XR should also reflect on their practice. Just doing things wasnt enough.

So I think some discussion within XR is wanted. I don't really see that happening publicly.

He did bring up the issue of XR seeming to middle class. ( The XR who I met in Marsham Street also brought this up) And the issue of some sectors of the community can't really be arrestable. It may affect their immigration status.

So Class and the policy of NVDA and arrests is something that XR is aware of.

On class. I do think given the way the world is middle class are going to dominate. I see this in the couple of community groups Im. Middle class have better resources and "social Capital". Also more time. A lot of the people I work with do long hours to make a living. Time poor.

I find it hard to do the few community things with time I've got. So whilst I'm sympathetic I've already got a lot on my plate. He understood that. This goes for a lot of people I imagine.

Climate Change isn't the priority in a neighbourhood like mine where youth services have been cut and we are arguing with Council over adventure playground, affordable housing etc.

I'm not saying XR should advocate the overthrow of capitalism. But imo to get a lot of ordinary people onboard they are going to have to explicitly link a move to a zero carbon economy to economic justice. Both here and internationally.

The XR in Marsham Street said to me he couldn't understand why Tory voters didn't see climate change as an emergency.

At present the theory behind XR is set by Hallam mainly. The literature given out is the same as last time.

The XR I talked to in Trafalgar Square wanted XR to reflect on the practise. I don't see this happening at the moment. XR isn't set up that way.

Yeah and there are lots of possibilities of linkage. Affordable housing and eco-housing for instance. They can be and need to be the same issue.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

I did have a chat with an XR at Trafalgar Square yesterday.

He had been in Occupy. I said I would like to see the XR banner in Scotland about Class and climate change. That was told here that XR Scotland were more upfront about climate change and social justice.

I di say one of the good things about XR was it gave an opportunity for people to get on with something that not everyone wanted to read books of theory all the time.

He surprised me by saying that XR should also reflect on their practice. Just doing things wasnt enough.

So I think some discussion within XR is wanted. I don't really see that happening publicly.

He did bring up the issue of XR seeming to middle class. ( The XR who I met in Marsham Street also brought this up) And the issue of some sectors of the community can't really be arrestable. It may affect their immigration status.

So Class and the policy of NVDA and arrests is something that XR is aware of.

On class. I do think given the way the world is middle class are going to dominate. I see this in the couple of community groups Im. Middle class have better resources and "social Capital". Also more time. A lot of the people I work with do long hours to make a living. Time poor.

I find it hard to do the few community things with time I've got. So whilst I'm sympathetic I've already got a lot on my plate. He understood that. This goes for a lot of people I imagine.

Climate Change isn't the priority in a neighbourhood like mine where youth services have been cut and we are arguing with Council over adventure playground, affordable housing etc.

I'm not saying XR should advocate the overthrow of capitalism. But imo to get a lot of ordinary people onboard they are going to have to explicitly link a move to a zero carbon economy to economic justice. Both here and internationally.

The XR in Marsham Street said to me he couldn't understand why Tory voters didn't see climate change as an emergency.

At present the theory behind XR is set by Hallam mainly. The literature given out is the same as last time.

The XR I talked to in Trafalgar Square wanted XR to reflect on the practise. I don't see this happening at the moment. XR isn't set up that way.

My thoughts ..
On reaction to the card to the police in Brixton my local XR group has decided we need to set aside time each meeting to reflect on practise

Hallam being in prison for a bit might not be a bad thing for the movement

I wonder if the police tactics this time might have sharpened minds a bit more


Labour for a green new deal has a lot of support within XR and they are firmly linking climate issues to class and justice issues

 

[8ball]

Have had a few fractious exchanges over Facebook today. I know a good few XR activists socially, and a couple of coppers too.

I’ll be happy not to be proved right, and remain the eccentric Wolfie Smith uncle to their kids etc. but I think our little entente cordiale is coming to an end.

And it’s “pain compliance” not “pain AND compliance”.

Stupid cunts don’t even know their own terminology.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Have had a few fractious exchanges over Facebook today. I know a good few XR activists socially, and a couple of coppers too.
.

interesting pub you drink in

 

[8ball]

interesting pub you drink in

Guess so. Though it’s not just the one
pub.

 

[Pickman's model]

Have had a few fractious exchanges over Facebook today. I know a good few XR activists socially, and a couple of coppers too.

I’ll be happy not to be proved right, and remain the eccentric Wolfie Smith uncle to their kids etc. but I think our little entente cordiale is coming to an end.

And it’s “pain compliance” not “pain AND compliance”.

Stupid cunts don’t even know their own terminology.

Are your friend sets XR activists and police mutually exclusive or do they overlap?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

They were the ones doing detailed removal from lock-ons at Trafalgar Square that I saw yesterday too.

Heddlu Police removing someone from a bathtub on Thursday:

 

[chilango]

Heddlu is just Welsh for Police in case anyone is wondering...

 

[Chilli.s]

Big thankyou to our intrepid reporters, more power to your photofingers.

 

[Pickman's model]

Heddlu is just Welsh for Police in case anyone is wondering...

always makes me think of headless chickens.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

This is way better than any of the London dancing I have seen:

 

[spitfire]

That's more like it!

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Interesting also to see Slough XR saying they would come to the United Friends and Family March in memory of people who died in police custody.

And now this:



But also this:

 

[Sue]

Lot of police on Waterloo Bridge, especially at the top of the steps from the Southbank/Embankment. Wonder if they're anticipating things moving on from Trafalgar Square.

 

[Red Sky]

Interesting also to see Slough XR saying they would come to the United Friends and Family March in memory of people who died in police custody.

And now this:



But also this:

Expect there'll be quite a cross over at tomorrow's Rojava demos as well.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Heddlu is just Welsh for Police in case anyone is wondering...

Fyc yr heddlu (suspect I've got this a bit wrong)

 

[Gramsci]

Big thankyou to our intrepid reporters, more power to your photofingers.

Thanks. I've had a cold past couple of days so havent been out.

Will try to cycle up to Vauxhall tomorrow to see the encampment in Vauxhall Gardens.

 

[chilango]

Fyc yr heddlu (suspect I've got this a bit wrong)

Ffyc

I suspect

 

[Proper Tidy]

Ffyc

I suspect

Ah bollocks, ffyced it

 

[LDC]

Some other thoughts and observations from a bit of time there the last few days...

1) Yesterday it felt like the attitude to the police had very slightly shifted. Nothing like scuffles, but the crowd felt a bit more active and less passive.

2) As has been noted there is a real lack of anger still, it does feel very much replaced by grief with a semi-religious undertone.

3) The cross generational aspect is impressive, I'd be really hard pressed to say any one age group dominated.

4) The levels of naivety around the police and what they do are quite mind blowing, and people are quite fixated on filming things thinking that'll expose and shame them.

5) It looked like it about much more than just about climate change, plenty of stuff expressing wider ecological concerns. But...

6) There was a almost total absence of anything that was explicitly anti-capitalist or around poverty, austerity, social justice stuff.

7) Someone commented that it felt a bit like XR was the middle class panicking, and while it's not that simple, there is an element that does feel a bit like that.

8) There's a lack of the drinking chaos punk element you usually get with this kind of thing on the streets.

9) A fuck of a lot of thought and effort has gone into it on a number of levels and when lots of stuff often lurches without much thinking that's refreshing and exciting to see.

10) It's not going to vanish anytime soon.

 

[planetgeli]

Fyc yr heddlu (suspect I've got this a bit wrong)

Ffyc

I suspect

Bwchiech.

(I think).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Some other thoughts and observations from a bit of time there the last few days...

1) Yesterday it felt like the attitude to the police had very slightly shifted. Nothing like scuffles, but the crowd felt a bit more active and less passive.

2) As has been noted there is a real lack of anger still, it does feel very much replaced by grief with a semi-religious undertone.

3) The cross generational aspect is impressive, I'd be really hard pressed to say any one age group dominated.

4) The levels of naivety around the police and what they do are quite mind blowing, and people are quite fixated on filming things thinking that'll expose and shame them.

5) It looked like it about much more than just about climate change, plenty of stuff expressing wider ecological concerns. But...

6) There was a almost total absence of anything that was explicitly anti-capitalist or around poverty, austerity, social justice stuff.

7) Someone commented that it felt a bit like XR was the middle class panicking, and while it's not that simple, there is a bit of it that does feel a bit like that.

8) There's a lack of the drinking chaos punk element you usually get with this kind of thing on the streets.

9) It's not going to vanish anytime soon.

Yep, agree with pretty much all that. For me, the 'middle class panicking' aspect comes out in the attitude towards the police. As you say, hopelessly naive - in the case of sending flowers, offensively so - and I find it hard to get my head around some of it. But it betrays the fact that many of these are people who, in their everyday lives, see the police as on their side, as 'serving and protecting' order, who haven't seen and would probably have a hard time believing the brutality the police are capable of. It also betrays a contradiction - they're seeking 'rebellion', disorder, but I'm not sure some have really grasped what that means.

On balance, I doubt the authorities see any of this as much of a threat at the moment. And for all the effort that's gone into it, that's ultimately a failure if it continues that way.

 

[campanula]

Always keen to see the Protect and Serve' meme destabilised...so silver linings. The Tory promises of 20,000 more plod and loads of new prisons gets all the justification it needs though...which is less comforting.

With crushing inevitability, there will be a widening gulf between XR and the forces of state control and oppression...so much depends on just how much appetite, middle class people with spotless records, have for choosing a side and committing to struggle.

 

[8ball]

Are your friend sets XR activists and police mutually exclusive or do they overlap?

Wasn’t sure whether you were thinking of Special Branch or actual XR ex or current police, but if you meant whether they were different friendship groups as opposed to talking on an individual level then yes.

We’ve known each other for a very long time, before XR and before involvement with the police force.

One copper is very pro-XR. Life is messy. I know what the police are for and what they do, but I’ve seen him help people and my friend was a total lifeline for me when I suddenly became quite sick a few years ago.

So yeah, a bit of cognitive dissonance, I suppose.

 

[Pickman's model]

Load of XR in Russell Square listening to one of the most dispiriting speeches it's ever been my misfortune to overhear, with loads of plod round on steps and in doorways

 

[Gramsci]

Been reading a bit about the Green New Deal today following on from what Miss-Shelf said about many XR supporting Labour party for a Green Deal. And me posting I'd like to see more of a link with climate change and social justice.

The Green New Deal isn't new. Its been around since the beginning of the recent economic crisis. Economists and Greens came together to put together alternative economic strategy. It was ignored at the time. Now its back with some Democrats in US taking it on board.

The Green New Deal in short a way to move to carbon free economy in a way that also improves the lot of the working class.

Ann Pettifor, one of the economists who worked on it, said in recent interview on the GND that,

People have criticised environmental movements like Extinction Rebellion for being a largely middle-class affair. How could something like the Green New Deal get working-class support?

I’m always reminded by people of Ken Livingstone when he introduced the congestion charge – all of his advisers said this would be the political death of him. On the day he introduced the congestion charge he put 300 new buses on the streets of London. That gave people an alternative.

The gilets jaunes in France don’t have an alternative for getting around rural areas. The government hasn’t provided them with an alternative transport system, and then it’s clobbered them with the carbon tax, so rightly they’re objecting. The government has to invest in alternative energy, transport, and land use systems. We can do this in a way that is really very good for working people.

She is a good read. She has written a book on GND I'd like to read.

GND is Keynesian not about overthrowing Capitalism. So its about Government directing the economy more. She is clear on the resistance of capital to even this reformist deal:

OK, but what are the challenges you can foresee with this type of radical action?

My reservations come back to the question of financing. To achieve zero carbon by 2030, we’d have to close down coal, gas and oil companies, and compensate them, and provide for and support their workers.

I very much doubt that Labour can mobilise this domestically, because the global financial system is still in the driving seat of deciding who gets financing for what. Research from the Rainfores Alliance shows J.P. Morgan Chase has reportedly lent $195bn dollars to fossil fuel firms since the Paris climate agreement was reached. The banks are the robber barons of coal, gas and oil.

To return to the key point about the original New Deal, the very first thing Roosevelt did was to subordinate Wall Street to the interests of the country. Labour won’t talk about this very specifically – but it won’t be able to mobilise the finance needed within a very short time without better management of finance. To talk about these ambitious goals, we have to talk about the money system.

So she is linking climate change to how capitalism operates. That to move to an economy that is green needs a discussion of how capital operates. Its going to resist any interference by government.

Also found this brief summary of a GND updated for Brexit Britain on New Economics Foundation website. NEF were one of the original groups along with green people like Lucas who wrote the first GND.

edit: oops forgot to put link to Pettifor interview:

How the Green New Deal was born - The Green New Deal Group

 

[LDC]

Load of XR in Russell Square listening to one of the most dispiriting speeches it's ever been my misfortune to overhear, with loads of plod round on steps and in doorways

Go on give us something to moan about, what was the general content of this speech?

 

[Pickman's model]

Go on give us something to moan about, what was the general content of this speech?

do you want to be here?