Extinction Rebellion

[LDC]

really, in 2019 you want to root in geographic communities? You've even spelt in American as you argue the point on social media. This is a rebellion that happening simultaneously in cities and towns all over the world. Geographic community isn't the future.

Yes, not exclusively, but largely. What do you suggest as an alternative, root it all in the ether? Geographic community is very much the future, people are increasingly living in large densely populated urban areas and working in similar the world over.

 

[Pickman's model]

sometimes the naiveity of xr is astonishing

i can't think a tweet like that would do anything other than rile cops

 

[8ball]

it is and it isn't. everything is connected, but things which are closer together are more closely connected. when london floods will you be relying on people in manitoba or malaysia or people in london to help you? if you can only network with people on the other side of the world and have no interaction with people in this country what is your activism worth?

Also a lot of the technology and organisational structures involved with mitigating climate change seem to be quite decentralised, compared with the Industrial-Revolution-influnenced ideas from the past.

I think the networks required will need to take pages equally from the books of locality and globalism*.

*- in the original sense, not the “mobilised capitalism” sense

 

[8ball]

sometimes the naiveity of xr is astonishing
View attachment 186511
i can't think a tweet like that would do anything other than rile cops

It’s not really for the cops, though.

 

[Pickman's model]

Also a lot of the technology and organisational structures involved with mitigating climate change seem to be quite decentralised, compared with the Industrial-Revolution-influnenced ideas from the past.

I think the networks required will need to take pages equally from the books of locality and globalism*.

*- in the original sense, not the “mobilised capitalism” sense

but also there's millions of people in this country who've never used the internet. insisting on using computers immediately means ignoring a vast swathe of people, writing them off.

 

[chilango]

What's happening on the streets comrades?

Nothing round here right now.

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s not really for the cops, though.

yeh well it's still not going to do anything other than rile the cops.

 

[BigTom]

I would say 3 is the most likely. But what do I know really.

well they've already shown themselves to be very good at fundraising so 2 or 3 seems like an easy path.

 

[8ball]

but also there's millions of people in this country who've never used the internet. insisting on using computers immediately means ignoring a vast swathe of people, writing them off.

Could talk about that, but I was thinking of things like micro-generation of electricity and the adaptive systems used to balance supply.

 

[newbie]

it is and it isn't. everything is connected, but things which are closer together are more closely connected. when london floods will you be relying on people in manitoba or malaysia or people in london to help you? if you can only network with people on the other side of the world and have no interaction with people in this country what is your activism worth?

the first part is fair enough, your edit not so much because 'only' and 'no' are too stark.

The geographic 'community', the loss of which is being lamented, has been replaced by a tapestry of overlaid communities, some of which have geographic components (else how would those who came together from somewhere in Wales or from Totnes have coalesced?), but most of which is based on a shared outlook expressed through sm.

fwiw I think much the same is true about 'workplaces' in the old sense of the term. While Greta whatsit and her cohort of children are joined by boomer pensioners as central players in these climate protests, and an increasing proportion of the workforce have precarious, zero hours and unrooted work, the old factory gate model has ever smaller significance.

 

[newbie]

Yes, not exclusively, but largely. What do you suggest as an alternative, root it all in the ether? Geographic community is very much the future, people are increasingly living in large densely populated urban areas and working in similar the world over.

It's not what I suggest, it's what's happening.

I live in a large densely populated urban area and have done for years and I'd say I'm pretty rooted in my little local geographic cohort, which doesn't include anyone who lives in this street or the next, and I'm completely unaware of what the vast majority of what my neighbours see as community. How about you, could you say there is one community that bonds people together?

We all have the same council, so there's some sort-of pavement politics cohesion (but only some, one lot want to gentrify as fast as possible- see house prices- and some of us don't) but it's nothing like how I grew up in a geographic community where every household had the same landlord, worked for the same employer, bought from the same local shop.... had necessarily shared material interests. That's history and can't be wished back into existence with some sort of conscious community activism (like the grentrifiers round here try to do).

fact is, in some bizarre way, I feel closer to you lot than to anyone who lives immediately close to me, even the ones I've know for 30-odd years, because I have some inkling about what posters are into, what motivates, what matters. And I'd hardly say I'm particularly bonded here (u75) in the way some people are.

 

[andysays]

sometimes the naiveity of xr is astonishing
View attachment 186511
i can't think a tweet like that would do anything other than rile cops

It might make some of them chuckle a little as well, TBF

 

[Rob Ray]

Sort of linked and didn't think it warranted is own post necessarily, I think it's interesting that big oil is seriously accelerating production rn. I have a hunch they may be reckoning the petrol party's nearly over and want to max profits while they can.

Oil firms to pour extra 7m barrels per day into markets, data shows

 

[SpookyFrank]

sometimes the naiveity of xr is astonishing
View attachment 186511
i can't think a tweet like that would do anything other than rile cops

Kind of implies that all those to whom the police have historically been violent and disrespectful had it coming for not asking nicely enough to be treated like humans.

 

[SpookyFrank]

It’s not really for the cops, though.

Who's it for then? The general public, to let them know that these are nice respectable folk and not at all like the grubby, antisocial protestors they may have encountered before? Potential XR recuits stupid enough to believe that any amount of asking nicely will prevent the police from putting the boot in if they're having one of those days when they feel like it?

 

[spitfire]

Just seen this on the twitter. The mask is slipping.

 

[TopCat]

Just seen this on the twitter. The mask is slipping.

Well that will undermine the NVDA approach.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just seen this on the twitter. The mask is slipping.

the trick is, in circumstances like this where arrest is certain and resistance futile, to hold your hands in front of you while standing and gracefully surrender although use of the phrase 'it's a fair cop' is optional. chances are you'll be handcuffed behind your back but you never know, now and again you may be lucky enough to be handcuffed in front.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well that will undermine the NVDA approach.

i don't know, i don't know how many of the xr out on the streets will make the mental adjustment from a) cops not our friends to b) cops are our enemies, and from i) i must be non-violent to ii) i must resist as best i can

 

[TopCat]

i don't know, i don't know how many of the xr out on the streets will make the mental adjustment from a) cops not our friends to b) cops are our enemies, and from i) i must be non-violent to ii) i must resist as best i can

I think people are less likely to chant "we love the police" when the po po are twisting women's ears.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think people are less likely to chant "we love the police" when they are twisting women's ears.

i can imagine that chorus coming from a choir of mail or telegraph readers

 

[TopCat]

i can imagine that chorus coming from a choir of mail or telegraph readers

Just before they are all shot?

 

[Pickman's model]

Just before they are all shot?

 

[Patteran]

Just seen this on the twitter. The mask is slipping.

Comments under that are very ugly - cop & pro-cop responses.

 

[8ball]

Who's it for then? The general public, to let them know that these are nice respectable folk and not at all like the grubby, antisocial protestors they may have encountered before? Potential XR recuits stupid enough to believe that any amount of asking nicely will prevent the police from putting the boot in if they're having one of those days when they feel like it?

You thought it actually was for the cops?

 

[spitfire]

Comments under that are very ugly - cop & pro-cop responses.

Yeah, not pleasant.

 

[8ball]

I think there's a number of possible paths they can take based on where they are now and the history of those that went before:

(In rough order of likelihood)

1. Repeat and fade (like Stop the War, summit hopping and so many others before them)
2. Specialise in high profile, professional activism with broad, but passive, support (like Greenpeace)
3. Become a permanent fixture of moralist minority activism (like CND or Animal rights)
4. Become a rooted, normative movement of defiance in local communities (like the Poll Tax)
5. Go "underground" and concentrate on stuff like the airport drones (like the ALF/ELF etc.)

Obviously I think option 4 is the way to go, but I just don't think they have the social base to do that

I think the Smithfield market lot were a determined effort to push things in the direction of option3, but hopefully things won't go that way.

 

[8ball]

Well that will undermine the NVDA approach.

The plan is to provoke violence from the protesters.

 

[LDC]

It's not what I suggest, it's what's happening.

I live in a large densely populated urban area and have done for years and I'd say I'm pretty rooted in my little local geographic cohort, which doesn't include anyone who lives in this street or the next, and I'm completely unaware of what the vast majority of what my neighbours see as community. How about you, could you say there is one community that bonds people together?

We all have the same council, so there's some sort-of pavement politics cohesion (but only some, one lot want to gentrify as fast as possible- see house prices- and some of us don't) but it's nothing like how I grew up in a geographic community where every household had the same landlord, worked for the same employer, bought from the same local shop.... had necessarily shared material interests. That's history and can't be wished back into existence with some sort of conscious community activism (like the grentrifiers round here try to do).

fact is, in some bizarre way, I feel closer to you lot than to anyone who lives immediately close to me, even the ones I've know for 30-odd years, because I have some inkling about what posters are into, what motivates, what matters. And I'd hardly say I'm particularly bonded here (u75) in the way some people are.

I suspect you live a pretty mobile and digitally connected life in a western city, unlike many in the world. Anyway, you might feel more connected to people on U75, but they're largely not the people you are able to organize with politically are they? And if they were then as a result of the conditions of connection and fragmented geography it would remain a slightly alienated activity, distant from your everyday life and limited in scope.

(XR are largely organizing geographically btw, they're just coordinating it globally.)

Of course like you say there's a lack of cohesion and understanding that we share the same material interests (that's a result of the victory of capital) and to some extent the political struggle is exactly about recapturing that understanding together, of course with the current conditions of people's lives and ways of living as a background. And of course it doesn't mean we don't communicate globally and across physical communities.

 

[Pickman's model]

The plan is to provoke violence from the protesters.

tbh they might end up with a different lot of protesters.