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Extinction Rebellion

I think the first stumbling block will be well before anything involving the dynamics of revolutions, and will simply be that the current system is by nature incapable of dealing with the issue.

Well, for a lot of us, that is less a stumbling block than a starting pistol shot and core assumption......

As Pickmans says, it is about what constitutes positive action and how that relates to the “climate movement “ as it stands.
 
yes i entirely understand where dual power stands. however, by aiming for a position of dual power (a phrase you've used several times, so obviously not one poor choice of words) you are clearly not preparing for the seizure of power. i don't understand why you're so fixated on 'aiming for a situation of dual power' and not 'aiming for the overthrow of the state' or '... of capitalism' or whatnot.

It may be just semantics, but unfortunately talking in terms of overthrow and seizing power conjures the impression of Party dictatorship for far too many, especially amongst those we need as allies who have experienced the “actual existing socialism” of Leninist regimes - by talking of building a counterpower, dual power or whatever, the base democratic nature of what is required is more explicit.
 
It may be just semantics, but unfortunately talking in terms of overthrow and seizing power conjures the impression of Party dictatorship for far too many, especially amongst those we need as allies who have experienced the “actual existing socialism” of Leninist regimes - by talking of building a counterpower, dual power or whatever, the base democratic nature of what is required is more explicit.

That is a potential source of ammunition for the opposition.

Just going by my personal experience, there seems to be a large number of members who are broadly supportive of capitalism and see this as an issue of communication, and a matter of the right technocratic "fixes".

I'm quite impressed by how quickly they have moved towards NVDA, but when people in reasonably high-level management jobs are involved, I wonder how far they can make it before the cognitive dissonance becomes a problem, and which way they will jump.
 
It may be just semantics, but unfortunately talking in terms of overthrow and seizing power conjures the impression of Party dictatorship for far too many, especially amongst those we need as allies who have experienced the “actual existing socialism” of Leninist regimes - by talking of building a counterpower, dual power or whatever, the base democratic nature of what is required is more explicit.
perhaps a new formulation to express what you're actually talking about would be useful then
 
That is a potential source of ammunition for the opposition.

Just going by my personal experience, there seems to be a large number of members who are broadly supportive of capitalism and see this as an issue of communication, and a matter of the right technocratic "fixes".

I'm quite impressed by how quickly they have moved towards NVDA, but when people in reasonably high-level management jobs are involved, I wonder how far they can make it before the cognitive dissonance becomes a problem, and which way they will jump.
i've said above i expect xr to split. but it could as easily split between xr and people who are 'professionals' and think the group's going too far as between xr and people who think they're not going far enough.
 
There's no fucking point in those of us with experience of this kinda thing in generations past not raising concerns/criticisms based upon that experience.

It'd be far more wasteful to sit here cheerleading activity and structures that we know have potential issues down the road on the basis of "at least they're doing something". What's the point in that?
 
i've said above i expect xr to split. but it could as easily split between xr and people who are 'professionals' and think the group's going too far as between xr and people who think they're not going far enough.

I think it could go in all manner of directions. The structure of the organisation seems pretty complex.
 
There's no fucking point in those of us with experience of this kinda thing in generations past not raising concerns/criticisms based upon that experience.

It'd be far more wasteful to sit here cheerleading activity and structures that we know have potential issues down the road on the basis of "at least they're doing something". What's the point in that?

Liked, but I wasn't too sure what it was in response to. :)
 
All goin off at the Natural History Museum. Some kind of biblical scene meeting Kubrick's "Eye Wide Shut" thing, perhaps Jodorowsky? You can never have enough street theatre, top stuff.

Was on Waterloo bridge for a while on Friday. Amazing stuff, I couldn't quite believe it really. Like a low key sit down "Reclaim the Streets" with skateboarders and people washing up!
 

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Interesting posts here.

I did post up photos of the Green Anti Capitalist Front. They had there own protest separate from XR rebellion. They had protest in the City of London. For non Londoners the "City" is separate entity from the rest of London. It does include all the financial intstitutions like Stock Exchange and Bank of England.

XR rebellion took place outside the City in the "West End" the shopping centre/ museum centre. XR have , surprisingly to me, avoided protests against major financial institutions.

XR protest to me was not trying to avoid issues of capitalism involvement in climate change. Its reformist not revolutionary. But using radical measures adopted from civil rights movements. Which in themselves were reformist. As in USA. Not a criticism but a fact.

An anecdote. On Waterloo Bridge one morning got chatting to one XR rebel. He said he was well off professional so not "arrestable". Fair enough. We had a chat. I said protest got discussion away from Brexit. That there were other issues like inequality/ so called austerity cuts which had been like climate change pushed to the background.

His reply was that climate change would affect everyone rich/ privileged or poor. Didn't make a difference. So for him XR wasn't about confronting issues like this Tory government. It was more , from his point of view, an existential crisis for humanity as a whole. "Beyond politics" as the XR leaflets said.

XR strategy , unlike GAF, is to blame government/ State inaction. Not overtly blame Capitalism or argue for the overthrow of Capitalism.

Its like Brainaddict post where CEOs in USA asked government to do more. Some Capitalists know that they are like ferrets in a sack.Competing with each other. The State does and always has had role in regulating Capitalism. So its rational response by group of Capitalists who are personally concerned about climate change to ask the State to bring in ground rules on business and climate change.

XR is not against Capitalism. Its position is to get broad base of support.From "arrestable" to people donating funds. A broad spectrum.

Its not about Rebelling against Capitalism as such.

This isn't a criticism. Its my view from what I've seen.

They are a mixed bunch. From all out Vegans, Mother Earth types and middle class professionals who want Green Capitalism.

Its a mistake to see use of NVDA as inherently revolutionary in the sense of overthrowing capitalism.

I don't think they have ever said that.

For the leading lights in XR the one big thing effecting humanity as a whole is climate change. Everything else pales into the background.

XR view is that we have until 2025 to halt worst effects. So , and this is my reading, its not the particular political set up of individual countries they are concerned about. Its about getting whatever government in power to put in law Zero Carbon by 2025.

XR view, from what I've seen, is that humanity hasn't the time to argue about individual political structures in separate countries.

Climate change is the one and only thing now. Its an emergency for humanity.
 
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to be fair to brendan o'neil - he does know quite a lot about being a member of some weirdo cult.

As well as his impressive ability to bravely sneer, from his position of extreme privilege, at a 16 year old with the gumption, articulation and passion to spark a mass global protest movement.
 
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