Extinction Rebellion

[Gramsci]

Yeah I've read that but I am unclear as to why you think what you've said is so different tbh.



I am interested in why you think this most think this though.

Its my unscientific feeling from seeing the protest at first hand. When the young person spoke on the radio that was how it appeared on the protests I saw.

 

[editor]

Its my unscientific feeling from seeing the protest at first hand. When the young person spoke on the radio that was how it appeared on the protests I saw.

That's pretty much how I felt and heard anti-Brexit sentiments repeated by people I spoke to.

 

[Mr Moose]

By whom?

Listening to young person on radio this morning. Said the young people involved had been protesting that there future was threatened by older peoples decisions/ lack of action.

That young person said there was parallel between young people wanting a second vote on Brexit ( its gone on so long that they didn't have vote in referendum first time around) and young people , like the Swedish teenager , protesting against lack of action on climate change.

I definitely got thethe feel visiting the protests that most thought Brexit was bollox.

Almost all the popular versions of Brexit are about more trade, more growth, less fetters, even when they admit the economy may suffer as a result. There is a version of Brexit that is all things to all people, outside the EU ‘we’ could have our own (better) environmental regulations but in a no deal scenario it would be all hands to the petrol pump in order to boost economic activity. The activists want international action, so it’s unsurprising they want an EU to demand it from.

 

[TopCat]

it's no real comparison and there are plenty of threads on Brexit.

 

[TopCat]

Is the Marble Arch camp still intact anyone?

 

[8ball]

That's pretty much how I felt and heard anti-Brexit sentiments repeated by people I spoke to.

I joined a local group and can back this up entirely. The one that was chained to that boat for a bit was increasingly politicised by the Brexit fiasco (was always a Green tbf).

Don’t think he’s so naive about the EU these days, mind.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Is the Marble Arch camp still intact anyone?

Yes

 

[Treacle Toes]

That's pretty much how I felt and heard anti-Brexit sentiments repeated by people I spoke to.

Fair enough. Note I asking rather than arguing against. It makes sense to me that the XR crowd are more likely to be remainers anyway

My point/ comparison to Brexit was more that whether leave or remain people were having to vote and campaign alongside people across traditional party lines, both campaigns ran with the 'for the good of all' mantra and are demanding the state 'do something' seismic. Those things made a lot of us uncomfortable/concerned with how Brexit played out la the same way people are about XR doing/saying similar. It feels 'populist'. I don't see how it can possibly be apolitical either.

 

[Crispy]

It's not so much apolitical as omnipolitical. It's a universal crisis that overrides day-to-day squabbles about how to run a country. "Put the toys down, and listen."

 

[Idaho]

I suppose we are in transition from labour/tory to something else. Brexit and climate change are the levers that are moving people away from the existing structure. I wonder what it was like when tory/Liberal broke down? I'll go and have a read and see if there are any parallels.

 

[LDC]

It's very clearly not 'apolitical', but XR are claiming it as such.

 

[newbie]

It's very clearly not 'apolitical', but XR are claiming it as such.

It's all politics. It's naive or fraudulent to think or pretend otherwise.

It'll become more naked political the moment anything practical is proposed, since that will necessarily differentially affect voting demographics.

The most obvious practical mechanism is to tax climate destruction- air fares, petrol, plastic... So the poor can't and the richer can.

 

[Crispy]

Taxing things is still "playing with toys." There are no tax incentives capable of reducing emissions to zero in ten years. This requires real physical mobilisation as if fighting a war.

 

[redsquirrel]

I suppose we are in transition from labour/tory to something else. Brexit and climate change are the levers that are moving people away from the existing structure. I wonder what it was like when tory/Liberal broke down? I'll go and have a read and see if there are any parallels.

Which is why in 2017 the combined two party vote was the highest it had been for ages? The idea that Labour/Tory are going to be displaced as the two major UK parties is mad ChUK nonsense.

 

[newbie]

Taxing things is still "playing with toys." There are no tax incentives capable of reducing emissions to zero in ten years. This requires real physical mobilisation as if fighting a war.

I don't disagree, my point was illustrative.

What sort of mobilisation do you think could stand a chance of achieving anything substantial or effective?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Which is why in 2015 the combined two party vote was the highest it had been for ages? The idea that Labour/Tory are going to be displaced as the two major UK parties is mad ChUK nonsense.

2017. That may not hold though - the Tories aren't likely to get more than 40% again any time soon.

Not saying Labour/Tories will be replaced mind, just that 2017 may be a bit of an outlier.

 

[redsquirrel]

Not saying Labour/Tories will be replaced mind, just that 2017 may be a bit of an outlier.

I agree 2017 probably won't be repeated next time but I do think it is representative. IIRC the 2015 local elections also had the highest dominance of 2 major parties since 1980.

 

[Crispy]

I don't disagree, my point was illustrative.

What sort of mobilisation do you think could stand a chance of achieving anything substantial or effective?

Solar on every building if it'll physically take it. Wind on every hilltop and every shallow shore. A warehouse full of batteries at every business park. Very heavily subsidised electric vehicle sales and very generous scrappage for petrol ones. A whole host of other bans/subsidised replacements. We could have transitioned to this, but dithered for 30 years instead. It will cost trillions.

 

[Shechemite]

Is it only me that gets a slight feeling of concern about where this might end up when there's a group/movement saying it's beyond the divisions of left and right and apolitical, and that's demanding that the State enacts sweeping powers and changes to society for our collective good?

From what I’ve seen/listened to of XR, it did feel rather cult-like.

 

[editor]

From what I’ve seen/listened to of XR, it did feel rather cult-like.

Did you go to the protests? I didn't see a cult. I just saw a lot of people from a lot of different backgrounds trying to get together to do something that should have been done decades ago.

 

[Crispy]

At this point if it really takes an eco-facist boot to save the world, I'll put my face on the ground for stamping.

 

[editor]

Solar on every building if it'll physically take it. Wind on every hilltop and every shallow shore. A warehouse full of batteries at every business park. Very heavily subsidised electric vehicle sales and very generous scrappage for petrol ones. A whole host of other bans/subsidised replacements. We could have transitioned to this, but dithered for 30 years instead. It will cost trillions.

More railways, air fuel properly taxed, polluting companies massively fined, a break from the throwaway electronics culture etc.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Solar on every building if it'll physically take it. Wind on every hilltop and every shallow shore. A warehouse full of batteries at every business park. Very heavily subsidised electric vehicle sales and very generous scrappage for petrol ones. A whole host of other bans/subsidised replacements. We could have transitioned to this, but dithered for 30 years instead. It will cost trillions.

Recently a scheme for around here was announced, which sounds interesting.

Integrated and innovative solar, battery, electric vehicle, heat pump, and CHP technologies to be deployed in West Sussex by green tech consortium

Plans for a £40m smart energy hub that will integrate a range of innovative energy management, electric vehicle (EV), heating, and power storage technologies to help cut bills from homes and businesses in West Sussex have been launched by a consortium of eight green tech firms today.

The smart local energy system (SLES) project, which secured £13m of backing from the government's Industrial Strategy Challenge Fund earlier this month, aims to show how power, heating, and transport technologies can work together to boost efficiency while slashing bills and CO2 emissions.

Plans unveiled for £40m green energy hub to cut bills and CO2 in West Sussex

 

[Santino]

At this point if it really takes an eco-facist boot to save the world, I'll put my face on the ground for stamping.

Let the Mother of Dragons and Jon Snow kill the undead, and worry about tackling feudalism another time.

 

[LDC]

At this point if it really takes an eco-facist boot to save the world, I'll put my face on the ground for stamping.

My point exactly, more than one person has expressed this which is worrying isn't it?

 

[editor]

To use the oft quoted meme: complaining about these protests is like complaining about your fire alarm going off when your house is on fire at 3 in the morning.

 

[Shechemite]

Did you go to the protests? I didn't see a cult. I just saw a lot of people from a lot of different backgrounds trying to get together to do something that should have been done decades ago.

Very good.

Based on interviews Hallam and some of the other leading members have given.

 

[editor]

My point exactly, more than one person has expressed this which is worrying isn't it?

I don't think he meant it literally, but I'm not seeing any remotely credible alternatives that have risen up to face this devastating crisis. While those on the left and right pick holes and try to push their dogma-laden and often wildly unlikely manifestos to increase their own party membership, Rome (or rather the Earth) is burning.

 

[Shechemite]

To use the oft quoted meme: complaining about these protests is like complaining about your fire alarm going off when your house is on fire at 3 in the morning.

Who is complaining about the protests here? My concern (and I think also LDC’s) was the rhetoric and politics of XR, not the fact that they are protesting.

You div.

 

[editor]

Very good.

Based on interviews Hallam and some of the other leading members have given.

Perhaps you should have gone down and found out for yourself.