Extinction Rebellion

[Miss-Shelf]

As in, people being picked up and carried away?

Yes

 

[8ball]

Yes

Well, that's good.

 

[smokedout]

Coming to a halt now apparantly as self-elected leaders try to get negotiations with city hall.

 

[8ball]

Coming to a halt now apparantly as self-elected leaders try to get negotiations with city hall.

You mean it has been hijacked by people not representing the movement?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Sadiq Kahn said...

”My message to all protesters today is clear: you must now let London return to business as usual."

In case anyone still thought he was a credible alternative to the other cunts.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I understand the "yellow vest" fash were down there yesterday having a go at people and shouting and throwing smoke bombs at the cops. Strangely enough I have not heard of any of them being arrested though.

 

[8ball]

Sadiq Kahn said...

In case anyone still thought he was a credible alternative to the other cunts.

That "business as usual" bit may well come back to bite him.

 

[8ball]

Why would those yellow-vest cunts have a problem with XR?
Assuming they're not off-duty coppers, obv.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Why would those yellow-vest cunts have a problem with XR?
Assuming they're not off-duty coppers, obv.

Bit leftie I guess. Although it looks like they moved on to their favourite target, the cops - particularly they hassle any Asian-looking cops, but generally they shout about them being corrupt Muslim-appeasers on Sadiq's payroll who won't bang up terrorists because they're too PC.

They _are_ PC(s) I suppose.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You mean it has been hijacked by people not representing the movement?

This was always a hierarchical thing tbf.

 

[LDC]

You mean it has been hijacked by people not representing the movement?

No, I think they're the official spokespeople from XR 'committees'. TBH it's internally consistent with their politics and stated aims which are to force/negotiate the State to take more action on climate change.

Their website is really worth spending some time on to get to grips with their structure and politics (although they happily announce they're apolitical). Have a look at this for some idea XR UK Organism – GlassFrog

There's also some interesting stuff about XR people getting paid here Voluntary Living Expenses Transparency

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not sure about that, an aquaintance of mine was a Au Pair for a retired Police Superintendant in Sheffield, she said he took great pleasure in showing visitors, his 'war trophies' and his photographs from Orgreave.

You think agricola's lying?

 

[kenny g]

You think agricola's lying?

Do you think he thinks that or are you just trying to cause trouble? Putting the w in anchor as always it seems.

 

[vanya]

All That Is Solid ...: Short Notes on Extinction Rebellion

Is there anything more to be said about Extinction Rebellion? Probably not, except it deserves the left's unequivocal solidarity, encouragement and support. There's little more to be added to takes by Richard Seymour and Lewis Bassett. Not that it's going to stop me from having my two penneth worth.

1. Extinction rebellion is both timely and untimely. Timely, because it's very much of the moment. David Attenborough and the BBC are spearheading programming on climate change, species loss, and environmental degradation. The public are prepped for it, and young people particularly are concerned - as the magnificent displays of climate school strike marches make clear. But this week's rolling non-violent direct action is untimely too. It's inconvenient for politicians more concerned with Brexit than environmental emergency, it's inconvenient for the hundred global companies responsible for 71% of emissions, and it's inconvenient for a government utterly uninterested in climate change and whose response to Extinction Rebellion is to issue threats. Extinction Rebellion is an embarrassment to our elite betters.

2. Extinction Rebellion is a symptom of left failure. On the self-described revolutionary left, the Socialist Party typifies this with their declaration that they're doing protest wrong. What we need, of course, is winning over the wider workers' movement to a programme of climate action. Well, the actually-existing labour movement in the UK already has with its green industrial strategy, something you wouldn't think has escaped the SP's notice. Then again, as it's in the process of lecturing its (soon-to-be erstwhile) Irish co-thinkers about how to run successful campaigns from the position of abstract moralising and revolutionary abstentionism, political developments may have passed them by. This does however condense the traditional far left response - formally correct critiques of the efforts of others while standing apart from (if not above) the fray, unless an opportunity to offload some unreadable newspapers presents itself. However, the mainstream workers' movement has been less than hot on green issues too. As we've seen a number of times, as organisations for the defence of and prosecution of workers' interests in the workplace, trade unions are susceptible to sectionalism and competition with other unions. Unfortunately, this often means the perceived need for preserving jobs, and therefore the subs base, comes before all else - as this Dan Carden's attempted defence of Unite's support for fracking makes clear. When the radical and mainstream sections of our movement give off anti-green and anti-environmental vibes, is it any surprise action against climate crisis comes from activist communities outside of it?

3. Extinction Rebellion's strategy of media attention-seeking worked. Clogging up the byways and the highways of the capital in a week Westminster took time off and there was a pause in Brexit always meant the media were going to cast around for something to fixate on. 24 hour rolling coverage duly obliged with extensive reporting on actions and arrests. They also featured some grumbling from the fuzz and politicians about "disruption" and the costs to business, but what the folk at home saw were mostly young people getting carted off in support of a cause in which there is widespread public sympathy. As latter day propaganda of the deed, the creation of spectacle ensured this most urgent and necessary of issues got top billing.

4. For all the moaning about elitist tactics, Extinction Rebellion has lowered the bar for effective participation. One needs is time, proximity to the protests, and courage. The emphasis on getting hundreds of people to blockade roads means arresting everyone becomes logistically difficult - four or five coppers are needed to carry off a "floppy" protester, and with a lack of cell capacity in London, arrest usually means getting carted to the nearest station and getting let go again. By going for direct action of this sort, the carceral system is put under strain, police time is wasted, crowd control tactics like kettling and baton charges are completely inappropriate, and it's the forces of the establishment left looking embarrassed and befuddled. Effectively, the paralysis of the authorities, and the pathetic response from the government - just as it was with the climate school strikes - can only encourage a deepening of resolve, especially on the part of new activists, and again underline the fact that the Tories will forever put their class interests before the common interests of all human beings.

 

[RainbowTown]

Whatever one's thoughts are on XR ( and personally I don't have any strong feelings either way) one thing has becoming clear: the 'Shangri-La' like period that has been experienced by them in London over the past few days, has now but all run it's course. The bank holiday is over and life for most people now gets back to the grinding normality of getting to work and going about their daily business. Hour after hour. Day in, day out. Week after week. Month after month. So in those coming weeks and months the question becomes whether a more fractious, intemperate and hostile approach will be taken by this movement if the current passive tactic falls flat on it's face (in the UK, that is). And if that does happen, how will this impact upon XR and their cause (no matter how worthy it seems - or not, as the case may be). It will be quite interesting to see how all this will be played out (and spun) by all the various parties concerned, not least XR themselves.

As for these excitable yellow vest guys and gals ....well, maybe a few of them need to get themselves a decent lay in order to alleviate some of that pent up frustration and anxiety they seem to be exhibiting.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

^ Perhaps the worst post ever. Vapid, meaningless, doesn't even go to the level of expressing a bad opinion - yet also manages to be offensive on multiple levels with "decent lay".

 

[RainbowTown]

^ Perhaps the worst post ever. Vapid, meaningless, doesn't even go to the level of expressing a bad opinion - yet also manages to be offensive on multiple levels with "decent lay".

The irony.

 

[SpookyFrank]

^ Perhaps the worst post ever. Vapid, meaningless, doesn't even go to the level of expressing a bad opinion - yet also manages to be offensive on multiple levels with "decent lay".

There's a sentence that starts with 'and' as well.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The irony.

No, you made a really bad post. Fix it or amend it or whatever but it was awful.

 

[agricola]

You think agricola's lying?

I didn't take treelover's post as saying that I was; all the people I knew who went were PCs at the time and they were all in the Met.

 

[Pickman's model]

Do you think he thinks that or are you just trying to cause trouble? Putting the w in anchor as always it seems.

no: if I thought he thought that I wouldn't ask him what he thought and if I was trying to cause trouble I'd do something more likely to cause it. You're putting the w in tat once again.

 

[Pickman's model]

The bank holiday is over and life for most people now gets back to the grinding normality of getting to work and going about their daily business.Hour after hour. Day in, day out. Week after week. Month after month. So in those coming weeks and months the question becomes whether a more fractious, intemperate and hostile approach will be taken by this movement if the current passive tactic falls flat on it's face (in the UK, that is). And if that does happen, how will this impact upon XR and their cause (no matter how worthy it seems - or not, as the case may be). It will be quite interesting to see how all this will be played out (and spun) by all the various parties concerned, not least XR themselves.

As for these excitable yellow vest guys and gals ....well, maybe a few of them need to get themselves a decent lay in order to alleviate some of that pent up frustration and anxiety they seem to be exhibiting.

You know there's a bank holiday tomorrow, right?

 

[RainbowTown]

No, you made a really bad post. Fix it or amend it or whatever but it was awful.

In your opinion. You may not like it, think it rubbish. fair enough. I thought it was a pretty fair and objective kind of post. You (and maybe others) didn't. Obviously. I personally thought your response,too, was a little unmerited, but that's what you thought, so that's OK in my book. Ditto the albeit crudish attempt at 'humour'. However, I do think it slightly OTT to describe the "decent lay" jibe as 'offensive'. But you are the admimistrator, so obviously if these are the guidelines to follow.

You know there's a bank holiday tomorrow, right?

Lol. Yes you are right. Though not for all. Some people do have to work on bank holidays.

There's a sentence that starts with 'and' as well.

Sentences can start and begin with conjunctions.

" It's a widespread belief - with no historical or grammatical foundation - that it is an error to begin a sentence with a conjunction such as and, but or so. In fact, a substantial percentage (often as many as 10%) of the sentences in first-rate writing begin with conjunctions."

 

[kenny g]

if I was trying to cause trouble I'd do something more likely to cause it.

Like what?

 

[Gramsci]

I've been looking at the XR website.

Also assessing my personal experience of the demo.

Its not democratic in sense of elected officials. As in community organisation or political party. It grew out of smaller groups. XR is attempt at mass mobilisation.

To me the internal democracy still belongs to that of smaller pressure groups. You join to achieve a certain object. Stop fracking in you area for example. If you don't agree with objectives you don't join.

XR idealogues like Hallam want to build a mass movement. Building a mass movement that is seeking change that will affect everyone. XR is international. This is a completely different level to say a road protest. Where in one locality a Tory could support a Swampie chaining himself to a tree.

XR founders argue the XR rebellion is beyond left and right politics.

The internal democracy of XR is like that of a single issue campaign. But they are trying to build mass movement. With a politics that is beyond left and right.

From what I've read what they want is mass NVA to force a government to adopt as enshrined in law Zero Carbon by 2025. Then, as elected government can't be trusted, government must also set up an "Assembly". This assembly will be like doing jury service. Random selection of citizens. This assembly will be given examples of how to achieve zero carbon by 2025 and will choose what they think is best. Elected government will be bypassed.

This reflects internal democracy in the XR movement. As long as you hold to the principles of the movement , whether you are elected or not is not not important. In XR terms its not representative democracy. Its all people in the movement working to agreed mandates.

The problem comes if XR achieve there aims. I don't think everyone will be that happy about the drastic measures required to move to zero carbon. XR people's assembly idea is top down.

 

[kenny g]

Sentences can start and begin with conjunctions

But why?

 

[Callie]

lol.yes you are right. Though not for all. Some people do have to work on bank holidays.

But it's still a bank holiday

 

[Pickman's model]

Like what?

Like what you're doing

 

[Pickman's model]

I've been looking at the XR website.

Also assessing my personal experience of the demo.

Its not democratic in sense of elected officials. As in community organisation or political party. It grew out of smaller groups. XR is attempt at mass mobilisation.

To me the internal democracy still belongs to that of smaller pressure groups. You join to achieve a certain object. Stop fracking in you area for example. If you don't agree with objectives you don't join.

XR idealogues like Hallam want to build a mass movement. Building a mass movement that is seeking change that will affect everyone. XR is international. This is a completely different level to say a road protest. Where in one locality a Tory could support a Swampie chaining himself to a tree.

XR founders argue the XR rebellion is beyond left and right politics.

The internal democracy of XR is like that of a single issue campaign. But they are trying to build mass movement. With a politics that is beyond left and right.

From what I've read what they want is mass NVA to force a government to adopt as enshrined in law Zero Carbon by 2025. Then, as elected government can't be trusted, government must also set up an "Assembly". This assembly will be like doing jury service. Random selection of citizens. This assembly will be given examples of how to achieve zero carbon by 2025 and will choose what they think is best. Elected government will be bypassed.

This reflects internal democracy in the XR movement. As long as you hold to the principles of the movement , whether you are elected or not is not not important. In XR terms its not representative democracy. Its all people in the movement working to agreed mandates.

The problem comes if XR achieve there aims. I don't think everyone will be that happy about the drastic measures required to move to zero carbon. XR people's assembly idea is top down.

The problem comes when nothing happens, when the objectives aren't met, and how people deal with that - whether xr remains together or it splits

 

[Lord Camomile]

Massive Attack currently playing Marble Arch. What the fuck??!