Ethiopian Airlines 737 crashes on way to Kenya 157 onboard.

[T & P]

And Airbus over here...

True...

 

[weltweit]

I'd have no qualms. The fatality rate is currently comparable to UK car road deaths per km travelled (and far better than bicycle, pedestrian and motorcycle numbers).

I bet it isn't better per journey taken. I will stick with a motorbike thanks

 

[weltweit]

How can the American authorities say that this plane is airworthy when two of them have flown directly into the ground killing everyone on board?

 

[mauvais]

Because it doesn't yet have any evidence that it isn't.

 

[weltweit]

Because it doesn't yet have any evidence that it isn't.

What, two aircraft flying into the ground isn't evidence?

 

[Spymaster]

How can the American authorities say that this plane if airworthy when two of them have flown directly into the ground killing everyone on board?

Because they don't know what caused the accidents.

 

[weltweit]

Because they don't know what caused the accidents.

Would a third plane flying into the ground fully laden persuade them there might be something wrong with the plane?

 

[Spymaster]

Would a third plane flying into the ground fully laden persuade them there might be something wrong with the plane?

Could have been bombs, sabotage, pilot error, pilot suicide/murder ... etc etc

There's a huge investigation procedure that has to be carried out to establish the cause of the accidents before the aircraft can be considered to be at fault.

 

[mauvais]

What, two aircraft flying into the ground isn't evidence?

No, it isn't (of any particular thing)

 

[Spymaster]

What, two aircraft flying into the ground isn't evidence?

Of course it isn't.

 

[mauvais]

Can you imagine losing two 737s with all aboard, having a good idea what might have caused it, and allowing the type to fly on for, say, at least another six years?

 

[2hats]

I bet it isn't better per journey taken. I will stick with a motorbike thanks

I applaud your altruistic attempts to reduce the transplant waiting list.

 

[Idris2002]

Now UAE has banned this aircraft also.

 

[HAL9000]

Slightly off topic, 2018 fatalities.

Aviation Safety Network releases 2018 airliner accident statistics - ASN News

The headline number is 556, but only 1 fatality on a western airline (excluding the crash in August, that aircraft was built in 1939). Considering the volume of air traffic, its a very impressive statistic.

Also included in the 2018 statistic is the 737 max that crashed in Indonesia, and a number of vintage aircraft, for example...

This aircraft was operating a test flight in preparation for a delivery flight to a museum.

and

In August 2018, Junkers Ju 52 crashed in Switzerland.

 

[weltweit]

Ok, there could have been non airworthiness issues until analysis suggests otherwise. I think the nations closing their airspace to this aircraft are taking a precautionary line. I certainly wouldn't want to fly in one until the investigation establishes causes of these crashes.

 

[2hats]

Ok, there could have been non airworthiness issues until analysis suggests otherwise. I think the nations closing their airspace to this aircraft are taking a precautionary line. I certainly wouldn't want to fly in one until the investigation establishes causes of these crashes.

I suspect you mean "wouldn't want to fly in one until the investigation establishes causes and subsequent appropriate corrective action is taken".

 

[weltweit]

I suspect you mean "wouldn't want to fly in one until the investigation establishes causes and subsequent appropriate corrective action is taken".

Indeed, thank you, I couldn't have put it better.

Though I just don't like flying really, I like it less and less the older I get.

 

[2hats]

FlyDubai have grounded their MAX fleet so that just leaves operators in North America and Lion Air as the main players still flying them.

Now banned from European airspace as of 1900z this evening except for a single ferry flight to a location for corrective maintenance.


e2a: last Smartwings 737-MAX flight loitering 'outside European airspace' trying to figure out their options...

 

[mauvais]

Nice. The aviation equivalent of a pre-booked MOT.

 

[2hats]

Looks like they are now diverting to Ankara whilst another Smartwings (Cape Verde to Prague) is now descending for Tunis after loitering off Malta for some time.

 

[2hats]

AP News reporting US pilot concerns about the MAX series:

Airline pilots on at least two U.S. flights have reported that an automated system seemed to cause their Boeing 737 Max planes to tilt down suddenly.

The pilots said that soon after engaging the autopilot on Boeing 737 Max 8 planes, the nose tilted down sharply. In both cases, they recovered quickly after disconnecting the autopilot.

and the Dallas Evening News reports:

Pilots repeatedly voiced safety concerns about the Boeing 737 Max 8 to federal authorities, with one captain calling the flight manual "inadequate and almost criminally insufficient" several months before Sunday's Ethiopian Air crash.

The News found at least five complaints about the Boeing model in a federal database where pilots can voluntarily report about aviation incidents without fear of repercussions.

Some US politicians have been calling on the FAA to ground MAX flights out of caution.

 

[Don Troooomp]

If they have covered up a serious fault, then 300+ murder charges should follow.

Quite - It's looking a lot like they added a system without informing pilots (Could be a massive cock up but NOT deliberate), or it could (and is more likely) to be a deliberate attempt to hide a fault on an aircraft that's selling very well.
In other words, I suspect profits came before safety - Very stupid as it was almost certain to come out in a spectacular way.

As you said, if that turns out to be the case, a lot of prison time is in order.

Luckily, pilots associations and local aviation authorities are taking this seriously and ignoring pressure from interested parties to declare the aircraft safe without proper investigation. Boeing shares, in guessing, are likely to dip wildly for a while.

 

[keybored]

Boeing shares, in guessing, are likely to dip wildly

And rather aptly.

 

[Yossarian]

The cause has now been confirmed as new-fangled modern aircraft being too darn complicated, according to the most powerful man in the world.

 

[mauvais]

The cause has now been confirmed as new-fangled modern aircraft being too darn complicated, according to the most powerful man in the world.

View attachment 164318
View attachment 164319

Which he couldn't manage to post as a Twitter thread. Probably not pilot material.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

IF the FAA and Boeing are covering fatal flaws for political/commercial reasons that pretty much could destroy both of them, the FAA’s raison d'être is no-compromise safety and Boeing would be sued out of existence. Would seem to be a dangerous game to play.

 

[Celyn]

Boeing Boeing Gone.

 

[Spymaster]

IF the FAA and Boeing are covering fatal flaws for political/commercial reasons that pretty much could destroy both of them, the FAA’s raison d'être is no-compromise safety and Boeing would be sued out of existence. Would seem to be a dangerous game to play.

I’d be absolutely gobsmacked if two of the worlds biggest aviation outfits have been involved in a safety scandal of any proportion, let alone colluding in covering up fatal accidents. I think there’s a lot of uninformed speculation going around at the moment which is being fuelled by social media. We don’t even know that the two crashes were caused by the same thing yet.

 

[Idris2002]

IF the FAA and Boeing are covering fatal flaws for political/commercial reasons that pretty much could destroy both of them, the FAA’s raison d'être is no-compromise safety and Boeing would be sued out of existence. Would seem to be a dangerous game to play.

Well, as with the Moon landing was a hoax stuff, how many people would have to be in on it for it to work?

I could see them taking their eye off the ball accidentally - but a deliberate conspiracy to conceal fatal flaws? I don't think it passes the smell test.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Well, as with the Moon landing was a hoax stuff, how many people would have to be in on it for it to work?

About as many people as Volkswagen would need to build in sensors to fool emissions tests?







I'm with spy on this, I don't think the FAA or Boeing are covering up anything. I think the FAA and Boeing are viewing it with a lens that is favourable to Boeing and the rest of the world with a lens that is unfavourable to the US. The truth will be somewhere in between.