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Ethiopian Airlines 737 crashes on way to Kenya 157 onboard.

I don't think public FR24 data constitutes valuable information. There are so many reasons why it (or its omissions) may not portray reality.
Though FR24 themselves will know the coverage of their receivers in the area, range versus altitude, have some idea of terrain masking limits and the reliability of each receiver from historic data. All of which could constrain possibilities. However, this will be moot once the DFDR (and to a varying degree, the CVR) are read back.
 
The pilots managed to report unreliable airspeed and problems controlling the plane when they requested clearance for an emergency landing. Unless it was so small a device that it damaged controls but nobody noticed the explosion, which seems unlikely, I doubt the pilots would have said what they said if a bomb had exploded on board.

I don’t know how reliable a post it is, but someone on the Airliners forum, which has many pilots among its members but also lots of airplane fanboys, said a very high speed nosedive could rip parts of plane like a 737, which could cause a fire.

No idea if true but although there is no radar data for the last few minutes, the consensus seems to be that it was a very high speed impact judging by the near disintegration of the plane. A high speed nosedive it’s what happened in the recent Lion Air crash, which ties in with the theory of an MCAS related incident.
 
One report can be dismissed as potentially unreliable but Reuters report finding several people providing similar accounts, namely 'fire' (sparks, smoke) from the rear of the plane, spilling luggage and a "strange rattling noise" both prior to impact with terrain. If they truly are independent witness reports then that could be significant. However, equally, the eye-witnesses could mistakenly be reporting "white smoke" when actually observing vapour trailing or fuel dumping.

The lack of ADS-B data after 6 minutes into the flight, until impact well over 30km of travel (several minutes) later, not only illustrates ADS-B coverage limits but points to a lack of altitude for the remaining flight duration otherwise it would re-appear above the local ADS-B receiver(s) horizon(s).
ETHIOPIA-AIRPLANE.jpg

These factors might encourage investigators to rule out in-flight fire, small incendiary/explosive device or contributory engine issue (HAAB is relatively high altitude and tends to be hot which will contribute to lack of lift at take off).
Could the rattling noise be the RAT (auxiliary power device) having been deployed?
 
Not telling the pilots of this device st the entry into service date was a fuck up by Boeing IMO. It’s all very well to issue instructions on how to handle situations when it kicks in, but the fact that Boeing has been working on a software patch (still not ready) suggests the technology is flawed to some degree, even if it turns out the pilots of either crashed plane didn’t follow procedure.

We know the Indonesian pilot did not follow procedure, but we also know that was because Boeing failed to tell anyone about it.
As the second crashed aircraft seems to have followed a very similar pattern of height and speed variations to the first one, Boeing has some serious questions to answer.

Most importantly, RIP to all the victims of this crash.
 
I'd have no qualms. The fatality rate is currently comparable to UK car road deaths per km travelled (and far better than bicycle, pedestrian and motorcycle numbers).
Is that the fatality rate for 737 MAX8 or for all types, and over what period?
 
Is that the fatality rate for 737 MAX8 or for all types, and over what period?
My own back of the envelope estimate for all 737 MAX 8's since launch. Probably on overestimate (ie the actual figure is better=safer) but was just done to get some sort of perspective.

Weekly flights of all MAX 8's:
737MAX8routes.jpg
 
I'd have no qualms. The fatality rate is currently comparable to UK car road deaths per km travelled (and far better than bicycle, pedestrian and motorcycle numbers).

Comparing miles flown and fatalities its not had a good start to life though has it? I think given the choice I'd rather be on a different plane and can understand why a growing number of authorities are grounding them, Oz being the latest.
 
Comparing miles flown and fatalities its not had a good start to life though has it? I think given the choice I'd rather be on a different plane and can understand why a growing number of authorities are grounding them, Oz being the latest.
Oh I'm not defending it. Just putting it into perspective. Doubtless much more crew training is required on this type.
 
I'd have no qualms. The fatality rate is currently comparable to UK car road deaths per km travelled (and far better than bicycle, pedestrian and motorcycle numbers).

But flying and driving a car aren't comparable, in terms of regulations, expertise required etc. So a comparable fatality rate is worrying. If car driving were as regulated as flying, if drivers had to go through the same level of training, cars the same stringent checks, then I'd be ok if fatality rates were comparable.
 
Turkish Airlines has six flights on their way back to Istanbul following the ban. This is going to cause chaos. (Of course, disruption is preferable to not being safe!)
 
The CAA has just banned all take off, landing or overflight of 737 Max in UK airspace.

I heard TUI were one of the only UK operators using these planes. I'm due to fly to London from Palma on a TUI flight on Friday so hoping I won't get stuck here.

*unless they put me up for a week in a TUI resort all expenses paid of course :)
 
Now banned in Germany, France and Ireland as well. I think Norway too. Things are moving fast today.

US airlines and the FAA (the US air authority body) are so far sticking to their guns and maintaining a grounding is not needed. I wonder how much of such decision is political, given the considerable lobbying power Boeing has over there...
 
I heard TUI were one of the only UK operators using these planes. I'm due to fly to London from Palma on a TUI flight on Friday so hoping I won't get stuck here.

*unless they put me up for a week in a TUI resort all expenses paid of course :)

I've been lurking on an aviation related board.

It was Tui passengers refusing to board the aircraft, and screaming to their insurance companies that prompted the CAA to act.

We are flying to Turkey on the 18th of May, and I would be very reluctant to fly on one of these, even when they have the software updated, which will be within two weeks.

I doubt if the restriction will be lifted by Friday.

On a tangent, there are a lot of surplus aircraft around at the moment, which I imagine will be dusted off to replace the 737 Max pro tem.
 
If they have covered up a serious fault, then 300+ murder charges should follow.
Well possibly manslaughter but I was thinking more in terms of the financial costs. Their share price has already come off almost 20% since the crash; then there's victim compensation, taking all the planes out of service to fix the faults, compensation to the airlines ... etc. You wouldn't want to be their insurers.
 
Well possibly manslaughter but I was thinking more in terms of the financial costs. Their share price has already come off almost 20% since the crash; then there's victim compensation, taking all the planes out of service to fix the faults, compensation to the airlines ... etc. You wouldn't want to be their insurers.

From what I can gather, this was a chimera of a plane, which has had bolt on followed by bolt on, rather than a complete redesign, which was what was required.

Boeing were aware of the problem, installed an undocumented system (dependant of a single sensor), and kept schtum.
 
Well possibly manslaughter but I was thinking more in terms of the financial costs. Their share price has already come off almost 20% since the crash; then there's victim compensation, taking all the planes out of service to fix the faults, compensation to the airlines ... etc. You wouldn't want to be their insurers.
Or their insurers' insurers
 
But flying and driving a car aren't comparable, in terms of regulations, expertise required etc. So a comparable fatality rate is worrying. If car driving were as regulated as flying, if drivers had to go through the same level of training, cars the same stringent checks, then I'd be ok if fatality rates were comparable.
I'd more more concerned.
 
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