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Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

Well it obviously changes from city to city, but in central London there are very few multi-storey car parks, and far fewer people who drive into central London and park there. So which cars do you ban? If you ban all private cars in London, you will find that most of Zone 1 will still be 80% full of motor vehicles. Because most of them are Ubers, club cars, taxis, delivery vans, trade vehicles, lorries, and various other types that are not private owned.

What next? Ban all club cars? Still lots left. Ban all Ubers and private hire vehicles? That's going to be really helpful to millions of people who have to take a journey that for any number of reasons is not viable to do by other methods.

And even after then you still have thousands of van and lorry deliveries of heavier items, and trade repair vehicles that simply cannot be replaced by bicycles, no matter how much some might wish otherwise. So you've taken the yes, extreme measure of banning cars and private hire/ taxis from a massive area, only to find out that there's still plenty of motor traffic around.

So yes. Small pedestrian zones exist already everywhere, including a few in London. But a city-wide private car exclusion would be an extreme meausre simply because it would not solve remove motor traffic from London, only reduce it by a modest percentage. That model might work in some small towns somewhere in the world. Will never work in London, no matter how people stomp their foot pretending otherwise.
I haven't said anything about banning every type of vehicle - the thread is focussed on private cars. The problem with taking less drastic measures is that they are likely to fail as car drivers are inherently selfish - so banning them from certain areas is for the greater good. People with disabilities or with legitimate need to use a car could still do so, but the majority of journeys by car in cities can be achieved by public transport, either with the current infrastructure or through expanding it to accommodate more passengers/routes.

City centre streets can be pedestrianised and still allow delivery drivers, etc., to get to where they need - this arrangements works perfectly well now.
 
I should add I’m not that pro public transport. I mean as we have found out recently there are some er… problems with hundreds of people sharing the same enclosed space.
We'd better abandon all buildings except private homes, and all non-virtual social events too then.

Public transport is not in a special category when it comes to enclosed, shared spaces. In fact it's generally better ventilated than the majority of enclosed spaces.

If you make all transport based on single-person pods then the inevitable outcome is that you have to give over large amounts of space to transportation, and the inevitable consequence of that is that you create places that are unfriendly to pedestrians and inhuman in scale. It's what car dominance has created. The same problems remain whether the vehicles are 'normal' cars or futuristic looking electric pods. For sure you can make some space savings by making the vehicles non-privately owned and through intelligent automated control systems, and these kind of things can probably be very useful for final-leg journeys in non densely populated areas, but I'm not convinced it can be made to work in high density or high travel intensity situations. I don't think there's any proof-of-concept system anywhere that demonstrates this.
 
We'd better abandon all buildings except private homes.

Yes let’s. Terribly polluting things that use up vast quantities of highly CO2-intensive steel and cement, not to mention the land use, heating or air-conditioning and transport to and from. They’re a blot on our cities and in our countryside and should be rewilded.
 
We'd better abandon all buildings except private homes, and all non-virtual social events too then.

Public transport is not in a special category when it comes to enclosed, shared spaces. In fact it's generally better ventilated than the majority of enclosed spaces.

If you make all transport based on single-person pods then the inevitable outcome is that you have to give over large amounts of space to transportation, and the inevitable consequence of that is that you create places that are unfriendly to pedestrians and inhuman in scale. It's what car dominance has created. The same problems remain whether the vehicles are 'normal' cars or futuristic looking electric pods. For sure you can make some space savings by making the vehicles non-privately owned and through intelligent automated control systems, and these kind of things can probably be very useful for final-leg journeys in non densely populated areas, but I'm not convinced it can be made to work in high density or high travel intensity situations. I don't think there's any proof-of-concept system anywhere that demonstrates this.

To be slightly more clear, I think public transport should be the main form of getting about, for most people. I just think it has its problems. Though part of this is just design, and freeing up more infrastructure would allow more flexibility on that front. You also need consistent demand and travel times to run it efficiently... That isn't necessarily going to be the case outside of widely used commute routes in major cities.

Also where were you planning to put your mass transit? Because bike, pod, bus or tram you're still unfriendly to pedestrians and inhuman in scale.
 
To be slightly more clear, I think public transport should be the main form of getting about, for most people. I just think it has its problems. Though part of this is just design, and freeing up more infrastructure would allow more flexibility on that front. You also need consistent demand and travel times to run it efficiently... That isn't necessarily going to be the case outside of widely used commute routes in major cities.
Don't disagree with that, other than to say that my idea of the ideal public transport system would have solutions for those low-demand areas that were fully integrated. It might be as simple as on-demand taxis that take you the last leg of your journey, from transport hub to final destination, and which would be included in the pricing for the whole journey, easy to book and so on.

Also where were you planning to put your mass transit? Because bike, pod, bus or tram you're still unfriendly to pedestrians and inhuman in scale.
I don't agree with that; there are plenty of examples of systems based around these transport methods that work fine in urban environments that remain friendly to pedestrians and human in scale.

There's obviously a sliding scale from totally pedestrian friendly (no moving vehicles anywhere) to completely alienating (multi-lane uncrossable highways and buildings separated by huge parking lots) and some compromises need to be made to allow motorised transport to be part of the picture - the point is that once you start designing things around private vehicles, things become exponentially more inhuman and set up incentives that only encourage things to get even worse.
 
Don't disagree with that, other than to say that my idea of the ideal public transport system would have solutions for those low-demand areas that were fully integrated. It might be as simple as on-demand taxis that take you the last leg of your journey, from transport hub to final destination, and which would be included in the pricing for the whole journey, easy to book and so on.


I don't agree with that; there are plenty of examples of systems based around these transport methods that work fine in urban environments that remain friendly to pedestrians and human in scale.

There's obviously a sliding scale from totally pedestrian friendly (no moving vehicles anywhere) to completely alienating (multi-lane uncrossable highways and buildings separated by huge parking lots) and some compromises need to be made to allow motorised transport to be part of the picture - the point is that once you start designing things around private vehicles, things become exponentially more inhuman and set up incentives that only encourage things to get even worse.

I don't think we're arguing for particularly different things tbh, I just think there's probably room to allow for small personal vehicles. Probably on a hire basis, or electric bikes etc. They should certainly fit in around a new public transport infrastructure, rather than the other way round.
 
"Not me, I'm a good driver"
If they want to keep driving after that they should only be permitted to drive one of these.

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I quite fancy a pod system. Like those vacuum tubes you get to take cash off the shop floor in supermarkets. I reckon it’s not outside the wit of engineering to make personal pods that fold up to the size of a suitcase. Maybe they could use the sewers.

And yes. I know. Tubes. We already have tubes. But other people are germy/fighty/smelly/rapey/listen to shit music/whatever. And I’m disabled, and there’s too much walking. My pod system would make every other manhole and drain grill a potential pod entry system. The alternate ones would be exits, of course.

Or they could stop procrastinating and get on with inventing teleportation. I mean, it feels like it should’ve been a higher priority than mobile phones, yet here we are. 2021 and no teleportation to be had.
 
I quite fancy a pod system. Like those vacuum tubes you get to take cash off the shop floor in supermarkets. I reckon it’s not outside the wit of engineering to make personal pods that fold up to the size of a suitcase. Maybe they could use the sewers.

And yes. I know. Tubes. We already have tubes. But other people are germy/fighty/smelly/rapey/listen to shit music/whatever. And I’m disabled, and there’s too much walking. My pod system would make every other manhole and drain grill a potential pod entry system. The alternate ones would be exits, of course.

Or they could stop procrastinating and get on with inventing teleportation. I mean, it feels like it should’ve been a higher priority than mobile phones, yet here we are. 2021 and no teleportation to be had.
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Drivers - “Can’t possibly ban cars from city centres”

Paris - “hold my wine...”



Not quite;

The new zone would not ban cars altogether: It would still permit motorized access to the zone’s residents (including short-term hotel guests), to people with disabilities, and to vehicles used for public transit, deliveries or services. The new rules would nonetheless make it illegal to drive across the city center without stopping.

They'll just all stop for a little cinq à sept.
 
That isn't what I think you think it is.
The new zone would not ban cars altogether: It would still permit motorized access to the zone’s residents (including short-term hotel guests), to people with disabilities, and to vehicles used for public transit, deliveries or services. The new rules would nonetheless make it illegal to drive across the city center without stopping. That would cover about 55% of total traffic — more than 100,000 cars — passing through this zone on average per day, the city says.
Amazingly enough I think it’s that ^^^
 
And that's all very well and will significantly reduce traffic, but it does not, by a long shot, get anywhere close to banning or eradicating cars from city centres, let alone whole cities. Which is what some of us have been saying it will simply not doable, and not going to happen.
 
And that's all very well and will significantly reduce traffic, but it does not, by a long shot, get anywhere close to banning or eradicating cars from city centres, let alone whole cities. Which is what some of us have been saying it will simply not doable, and not going to happen.
It’s a significant step in the right direction, and won’t be the end of things.
 
And that's all very well and will significantly reduce traffic, but it does not, by a long shot, get anywhere close to banning or eradicating cars from city centres, let alone whole cities. Which is what some of us have been saying it will simply not doable, and not going to happen.
Not with that attitude :rolleyes:
 
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