teuchter
je suis teuchter
From the first page of this thread.
Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Yes, I am aware society becomes reordered over time, but that's generally not a directed process but something that happens by gradual consensus amongst large groups of participants. I'm sure cars aren't widespread now due to the horse-welfare folks complaining about working conditions for horses. If cars vanish in the future it won't be because a few niche edgelords tried to force everyone to relocate their homes to a tower block next to a tube station.
I admit I do find it pretty difficult to imagine a situation in which car-equivalent personally-directed door-to-door self-driving transport pods or whatever are something that society will ever decide that it wants to do without. It's a bit like oil-lamp-haters back in the day arguing against any type of artificial light.
But do carry on. tbh I kind of miss Spymaster, at least he had a sense of humour
No, I don't mean that. I'm just being a dick. As y'were
I shall try to leave this thread to the monothought clique then.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Private cars - once they became affordable to people other than the wealthy - didn't replace horses. They replaced buses and trains and to some extent walking.
When private car use became widespread it wasn't a bunch of horses that were cast aside. It was a network of public transport, both urban and rural. It was also a whole bunch of services like shops and workplaces which were in locations that anyone could reach on foot or by public transport.
When private car use became widespread it wasn't a bunch of horses that were cast aside. It was a network of public transport, both urban and rural. It was also a whole bunch of services like shops and workplaces which were in locations that anyone could reach on foot or by public transport.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
You have heard of bicycles, right? Tricycles? Tricycles with child seats or carrying boxes? Trailers for bikes? Tandems, for people who want to travel together? You're aware these vehicles can be electrified these days? And that waterproof clothing is a thing? And that bicycles and tricycles can be covered so the rider can stay warm and dry? And that hireable taxis will probably never go away? And that trains and buses also exist and their infrastructure can always be improved?
liked for unironic use of monothought clique. Haven't heard that for aaages, brilliant.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
In the 50s and 60s, yes people did decide it was quicker and easier to drive than getting the bus to the branch line station. The horse-welfare folk decades earlier had no influence in the matter. Blackpool went to shit because people preferred to jet off to Torremelinos, not because there were a few locals that moaned about tourists. It's almost like people change their behaviour when there's an alternative they actually prefer, but not when there's an alternative that a few people tell them they ought to prefer. This is basic stuff though right?
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Not sure there's much difference between "covered electric multi-occupancy trikes, and taxis" and "electric cars" tbh, but go off I guess.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yes, people who could afford a car could choose that option. People who couldn't afford a car or who couldn't drive, didn't get a choice in whether their transport services were cut back. Pretty basic stuff indeed.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Heh I did not know you were a Tyke these days steth.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Of course many couldn’t afford rail fares prior to the reduction in services caused by car use. In fact people left the railways in droves prior to widespread car ownership due to unaffordability of tickets:
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Not sure there's much difference between this post and a fart, but feel free to do it again. I'm far enough away the smell can't reach me.
If the state decided that it is in its interests to eliminate private car ownership, it could direct things that way effectively over a few decades, regardless of the thoughts and feelings of the population at the beginning of the process. By the end of those decades, that same population would even embrace it, if the state used the appropriate strategy. Consumer choice never achieves social change, it’s the social change that drives consumer choice. Maintaining a world built around the private car is a choice of the institutions of power, not an inevitability of democracy.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Except the tweet is bollocks. They didn't "ask the workers to work faster" and it wasn't because "they didn't like waiting in line".
If you can't even verify claims in a random tweet, how can you possibly manage to ban cars?
If you can't even verify claims in a random tweet, how can you possibly manage to ban cars?
TRUMBULL — A thorough review of traffic needs in the area around Trumbull Center is being complicated by coffee, according to members of the Planning & Zoning Commission.
Toward the end of last week’s April meeting, Town Planner Rob Librandi informed the commissioners that a study of Trumbull Center would be getting underway shortly. That prompted commissioner Anthony Chory to ask if there was anything the commission could do to address congestion at the Starbucks at 965 White Plains Road.
“The drive-thru at Starbucks is causing backups on White Plains Road,” Chory said.
The coffee shop has a long drive-thru queuing line that can accommodate about 15 vehicles. But at busy periods the line spills out into White Plains Road. Chory suggested adopting a similar plan to that utilized at some fast food locations during their lunch rush.
“I know at Duchess in Monroe when it’s backed up, they have somebody go outside, you pull ahead, and they deliver to the car,” he said. “I wonder if we, are we going to be able to do anything like that?”
Librandi said forcing a change at this point is unlikely.
“I think to force them to change anything now is going to be tough because they do have their approval,” Librandi said. “We can recommend that they do it.”
Chory recommended sending a formal letter urging the store to pick up the pace.
“What I would like to recommend is that we write them a formal letter saying that we feel they are not adequately moving people through the line, and during peak hours they should develop a plan to allow people to put an order in and move head in the line to deliver to relieve the backup on White Plains Road and in the parking lot,” he said. “I think they could do that. It doesn’t have to be a redesign of the parking lot. I could be just having extra people, during peak hours, figuring out a way to move people quicker.”
Tony Silber, who was acting chairman at the meeting, was supportive of Chory’s idea.
“I think that’s a reasonable request to make of the owner. It really is,” Silber said. “And they don’t have the same level of interior service, walk-in service anymore, so they could redeploy people.”
A request for comment on company policies or standards on speed of service, sent to the Starbucks Media Relations Team, was not immediately returned.
First Selectman Vicki Tesoro said the issue was not new, and in fact had been discussed when plans first began to solidify for the new shopping center at 965 White Plains Road in 2017. The center is anchored by a CVS pharmacy that, along with Starbucks, relocated across the street from their former locations at 938 White Plains Road, and also has a drive-thru.
“It’s a very busy road with the schools, and Route 25 and the Merritt Parkway,” Tesoro said.
Tesoro said the shopping center’s owners had taken action to help reduce the problem, creating a dedicated lane for Starbucks customers to wait. By making it more clear where the line should be, the gridlocked parking lot seems to have improved, she said.
“There is work being done, but more needs to be done,” she said.
Police Lt. Brian Weir said the department had been in touch with the state DOT exploring long-term and short-term options. White Plains Road, also known as Route 127, is a state highway and not under the town’s control. Weir said adjusting the timing of the stop lights at White Plains Road, Church Hill Road and Daniels Farm road could be an option. While it would not shorten the Starbucks line, it could improve traffic around the shopping center’s entrance.
“What happens is that when you reach the intersection on White Plains Road, it’s three lanes and two lanes go up Church Hill Road and one lane turns right onto Daniels Farm Road,” he said. “The light coming down Church Hill Road has a turn arrow, but if you’re trying to turn left into the shopping center, there’s no arrow. So you just sit there.”
Librandi said he was surprised at the demand for the drive-thru since the store’s previous location on the other side of White Plains Road had not had one.
“Their old location was just a few hundred feet away, and everyone managed to get their coffee,” he said.
He said he was surprised that the 15-car queuing line was full so often.
“When it was approved, it seemed like overkill because the standard is for five cars,” he said.
Librandi and Economic and Community Development Director Rina Bakalar expressed hope that warmer weather and relaxed COVID-19 restrictions would lead to more people getting out of their cars to order inside at the counter, thereby reducing the line at the drive-thru.
On a recent visit, Bakalar said she bypassed the 20-car line and ordered inside, where she was one of only two customers.
“I get it, I’ve been a single parent with a kid in the back, and now people are worried about being inside with people who maybe haven’t gotten the vaccine,” Bakalar said. “But I think, when table seating resumes and you can sit inside, that will bring people into the store.”
Toward the end of last week’s April meeting, Town Planner Rob Librandi informed the commissioners that a study of Trumbull Center would be getting underway shortly. That prompted commissioner Anthony Chory to ask if there was anything the commission could do to address congestion at the Starbucks at 965 White Plains Road.
“The drive-thru at Starbucks is causing backups on White Plains Road,” Chory said.
The coffee shop has a long drive-thru queuing line that can accommodate about 15 vehicles. But at busy periods the line spills out into White Plains Road. Chory suggested adopting a similar plan to that utilized at some fast food locations during their lunch rush.
“I know at Duchess in Monroe when it’s backed up, they have somebody go outside, you pull ahead, and they deliver to the car,” he said. “I wonder if we, are we going to be able to do anything like that?”
Librandi said forcing a change at this point is unlikely.
“I think to force them to change anything now is going to be tough because they do have their approval,” Librandi said. “We can recommend that they do it.”
Chory recommended sending a formal letter urging the store to pick up the pace.
“What I would like to recommend is that we write them a formal letter saying that we feel they are not adequately moving people through the line, and during peak hours they should develop a plan to allow people to put an order in and move head in the line to deliver to relieve the backup on White Plains Road and in the parking lot,” he said. “I think they could do that. It doesn’t have to be a redesign of the parking lot. I could be just having extra people, during peak hours, figuring out a way to move people quicker.”
Tony Silber, who was acting chairman at the meeting, was supportive of Chory’s idea.
“I think that’s a reasonable request to make of the owner. It really is,” Silber said. “And they don’t have the same level of interior service, walk-in service anymore, so they could redeploy people.”
A request for comment on company policies or standards on speed of service, sent to the Starbucks Media Relations Team, was not immediately returned.
First Selectman Vicki Tesoro said the issue was not new, and in fact had been discussed when plans first began to solidify for the new shopping center at 965 White Plains Road in 2017. The center is anchored by a CVS pharmacy that, along with Starbucks, relocated across the street from their former locations at 938 White Plains Road, and also has a drive-thru.
“It’s a very busy road with the schools, and Route 25 and the Merritt Parkway,” Tesoro said.
Tesoro said the shopping center’s owners had taken action to help reduce the problem, creating a dedicated lane for Starbucks customers to wait. By making it more clear where the line should be, the gridlocked parking lot seems to have improved, she said.
“There is work being done, but more needs to be done,” she said.
Police Lt. Brian Weir said the department had been in touch with the state DOT exploring long-term and short-term options. White Plains Road, also known as Route 127, is a state highway and not under the town’s control. Weir said adjusting the timing of the stop lights at White Plains Road, Church Hill Road and Daniels Farm road could be an option. While it would not shorten the Starbucks line, it could improve traffic around the shopping center’s entrance.
“What happens is that when you reach the intersection on White Plains Road, it’s three lanes and two lanes go up Church Hill Road and one lane turns right onto Daniels Farm Road,” he said. “The light coming down Church Hill Road has a turn arrow, but if you’re trying to turn left into the shopping center, there’s no arrow. So you just sit there.”
Librandi said he was surprised at the demand for the drive-thru since the store’s previous location on the other side of White Plains Road had not had one.
“Their old location was just a few hundred feet away, and everyone managed to get their coffee,” he said.
He said he was surprised that the 15-car queuing line was full so often.
“When it was approved, it seemed like overkill because the standard is for five cars,” he said.
Librandi and Economic and Community Development Director Rina Bakalar expressed hope that warmer weather and relaxed COVID-19 restrictions would lead to more people getting out of their cars to order inside at the counter, thereby reducing the line at the drive-thru.
On a recent visit, Bakalar said she bypassed the 20-car line and ordered inside, where she was one of only two customers.
“I get it, I’ve been a single parent with a kid in the back, and now people are worried about being inside with people who maybe haven’t gotten the vaccine,” Bakalar said. “But I think, when table seating resumes and you can sit inside, that will bring people into the store.”
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Do you have any examples from parliamentary democracies where the state has formulated a strategy and stuck to it for 50+ years despite it being deeply unpopular for the first two or three decades at least?
So nothing wrong with people driving to get coffee?
I said decades, not 50+ years. And yes, history is absolutely littered with examples. Particularly in states where you only need about 25% of the population to vote for you in order to have a functioning majority
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Surely 50 years is "a few decades", which is what you said. I can't think of any examples where a parliamentary democracy state has "directed things" over that time period in such a way.
The neoliberal consensus underlying principles of governing the country that arguably peaked in 2008 and enabled privatisation of the railways, the Royal Mail and vast swathes of the NHS was manufactured post-1979 by governments enacting policies in the face of broad disapproval. Widespread riots and strikes were evident but the government fundamentally stuck to its agenda, even if it made concessions on specific policies. Over time, this shifted what was seen as normal further and further. Post-1995, voters not longer even had a choice in the matter, because all agents of the state were following the neoliberal path. By 2008, individualisation, consumer capitalism, privatisation, responsibilisation and the privatisation of debt were viewed as the status quo.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Privatization of BT, British Gas etc had widespread popular support at the time, it wasn't some multi-decade devious scheme brewed up carefully by a succession of different governments.
Hardly comparable to "if the state decided that it is in its interests to eliminate private car ownership, it could direct things that way effectively over a few decades, regardless of the thoughts and feelings of the population at the beginning of the process"
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
@platinumsage’s point is perfectly valid. It’s all very well for people who have no need for a car to call for cars to be banned, because they have viable alternatives for all the journeys they wish to make and zero mental capacity to imagine the circumstances of people who don’t.
Before being so foolish as to call for policy changes which affect everyone, you should consider everyone’s circumstances. It’s that simple.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Probably the council's fault, they like to disguise private land as public pavements. There could be a few tiny brass studs or something, demonstrating that part of the paved area is private land and thus conferring the right of access by motor vehicles across the actual pavement. Even if that hasn't happened here, the fact it's a thing has normalised this behaviour.
What the fuck are you on about? Just bizarre that you’ll defend pretty much all terrible driving. It’s a fucking pavement!
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I didn't defend it in the slightest, I criticised councils for devaluing pavements. And you don't know it's a pavement unless you've seen the plans and/or Traffic Regulation Orders kept in the council's basement.
