Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[maomao]

Probably more localised particulates produced by the school canteen or the school’s gas boiler than a single idling car. Perhaps you should do an interior air quality survey of the premises to inform your syphillis-wishing.

Brand new school, no gas. Outside caterer, vast majority of food heated in microwaves on site.

People need to eat. They don't need to park oversized twatmobiles illegally outside a school, forcing small children to walk in the road while pumping benzene and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons into their faces. They do it because they're ignorant selfish cunts.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Probably more localised particulates produced by the school canteen or the school’s gas boiler than a single idling car. Perhaps you should do an interior air quality survey of the premises to inform your syphillis-wishing.

The boiler and the extractors in the canteen don't vent at ground level, I'm guessing.

 

[platinumsage]

Brand new school, no gas. Outside caterer, vast majority of food heated in microwaves on site.

People need to eat. They don't need to park oversized twatmobiles illegally outside a school, forcing small children to walk in the road while pumping benzene and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons into their faces. They do it because they're ignorant selfish cunts.

Perhaps the driver is thinking that there are likely far high PAH levels in the toast the child had for breakfast than in a momentary waft of exhaust. Not everyone shares the same concerns, and since IC engines aren’t currently banned, it might seem reasonable to some people to use them.

 

[maomao]

Perhaps the driver is thinking that there are likely far high PAH levels in the toast the child had for breakfast than in a momentary waft of exhaust. Not everyone shares the same concerns, and since IC engines aren’t currently banned, it might seem reasonable to some people to use them.

Oh just fuck off you boring obnoxious twat.

 

[teuchter]

I agree we're probably in the last 10-20 years of private car ownership being affordable for most of us. I can see in 20 years time that ICE car tax & petrol will be prohibitively expensive and mileage limited, mainly for "heritage" vehicles. Maybe it's time to invest in that Jowett Javelin or Humber Sceptre after all.

Short term car leasing and hiring is the way to go- you use the car strictly when you have to and it's owned by a co-op, like co-wheels. I've just recently bought what will definitely be my last ICE car. The electric infrastructure just isn't quite there yet if you don't own your own home (and therefore charging point), live outside a big city, and you regularly have to drive long distances. But I hope use of the ICE will decline steeply in the second half of this decade.

Have to laugh at someone whinging that the Renault Zoe is "a bit of a bucket". Fucks sakes. Having driven one on short term hire a few times it's a lovely car to drive and has everything you need for the city/ short hop drive outside. Quiet, comfortable, very easy to drive, and actually, unusually for an EV, affordable. Whinging that the interior isn't up to much is real first world problem stuff.

I love cars, love car history and car design. I can tell an Elva apart from a Ginetta. But...I can't argue against cars now being the problem, and that moving beyond owning them and driving them as indivduals is a challenge we all have to crack. EVs might be part of a transitional solution to obviate the worst polluting of mass ICE ownership, but it's only transitional. In the long term we have to find another way of moving about or, find a way to stop moving about so much.

It's a bit sad, but I can't see a way for mass car ownership to continue sustainably. Probably folk said the same about the demise of the horse as mass transport at the beginning of the twentieth century.

I hope steeplejack doesn't mind me quoting this good post from the electric car thread.

 

[platinumsage]

I hope steeplejack doesn't mind me quoting this good post from the electric car thread.

steeplejack is right about ICE car ownership, I’ve read the crossover point in terms of cost of ownership with EVs will be around 2025.

However they provide no rationale for the end of private EV ownership in 10-20 years.

 

[teuchter]

steeplejack is right about ICE car ownership, I’ve read the crossover point in terms of cost of ownership with EVs will be around 2025.

However they provide no rationale for the end of private EV ownership in 10-20 years.

Part of it will be that all the dinosaurs like you and Spymaster and T & P and the others, who are stuck in an outmoded, disgraced and dysfunctional transport paradigm/mindset will be too old to drive by then anyway. Younger people have better ideas about how the future is going to work.

 

[platinumsage]

Part of it will be that all the dinosaurs like you and Spymaster and T & P and the others, who are stuck in an outmoded, disgraced and dysfunctional transport paradigm/mindset will be too old to drive by then anyway. Younger people have better ideas about how the future is going to work.

I'd love to hear young people's better ideas about personal transport, but I fear I'm in the wrong place for that.

 

[Spymaster]

And because I've never ever had a good reaction from any driver when criticising their behaviour and have promised not to start fights at the school.

Weak.

 

[teuchter]

I'd love to hear young people's better ideas about personal transport, but I fear I'm in the wrong place for that.

Of course you're in the wrong place - you're clearly here because you just want to mouth off in the company of other aging conservatives who like talking about estate cars and how cyclists shouldn't be holding up traffic. And many people here fall into that category.

If you genuinely had any interest in educating yourself on transport matters you would engage elsewhere.

 

[maomao]

However they provide no rationale for the end of private EV ownership in 10-20 years.

Absolute minimum 1.5c temperature rise by 2040. Probably more. The world's powers will be engaged in ruthless and deadly resource wars and the age of private motoring will probably be near its end.

 

[T & P]

Part of it will be that all the dinosaurs like you and Spymaster and T & P and the others, who are stuck in an outmoded, disgraced and dysfunctional transport paradigm/mindset will be too old to drive by then anyway. Younger people have better ideas about how the future is going to work.

It goes to show how blinkered your therapy-grade hatred of people owning cars has made you, that even on your own pride and joy thread you continue to fail to read other people's posts. If you did, you would have noticed the multipe times I've said I don't own a car (by choice), don't plan to own one in the future, regularly use (and love) car clubs, and have driven and also love electric cars.

Perhaps you should spend less time taking pictures of badly parked cars to post them in this thread (the Driving Standards thread is the one for it, if you must engage in such a bizarre pastime on your free time), and pay more attention to the posts of the people you choose to engage with.

 

[teuchter]

It goes to show how blinkered your therapy-grade hatred of people owning cars has made you, that even on your own pride and joy thread you continue to fail to read other people's posts. If you did, you would have noticed the multipe times I've said I don't own a car (by choice), don't plan to own one in the future, regularly use (and love) car clubs, and have driven and also love electric cars.

I'm aware of all this. But we established that you drive a 3-wheeled internal combustion engine contraption, which is not exactly a car but sort of a car. We've also established over multiple threads that you are stuck in the dinosaur transport paradigm.

In 10-20 years your current purchase habits and opinions will be irrelevant - that's the point.

 

[maomao]

you did, you would have noticed the multipe times I've said I don't own a car (by choice), don't plan to own one in the future, regularly use (and love) car clubs, and have driven and also love electric cars.

And said that you would always use a car rather than public transport even when public transport was quicker.

 

[T & P]

I'm aware of all this. But we established that you drive a 3-wheeled internal combustion engine contraption, which is not exactly a car but sort of a car. We've also established over multiple threads that you are stuck in the dinosaur transport paradigm.

In 10-20 years your current purchase habits and opinions will be irrelevant - that's the point.

In 10-20 years time I'll be driving an electric bike, and hiring an electric car whenever I deem convenient. So your dinosaur claims remain well unfounded.

 

[T & P]

And said that you would always use a car rather than public transport even when public transport was quicker.

On the very few occasions when bike isn't available to me, why the fuck shouldn't I, in the era of Covid and all?

As it has been said a trillion times, there is NOTHING wrong with car use in moderation. Fucking nothing AT ALL. Or at least, nothing worse than countless other activities, including plenty favoured by anti-car brigade, if they are also done in moderation.

 

[maomao]

car use in moderation.

Define moderation. Because when I walk out my door I'm not seeing or breathing moderation.

 

[teuchter]

In 10-20 years time I'll be driving an electric bike, and hiring an electric car whenever I deem convenient. So your dinosaur claims remain well unfounded.

But your assumption is that your main vehicle (whatever you call it) will still be privately owned by you. This means your journey choices would still be heavily influenced by sunk/marginal cost factors. You are not yet ready for the idea of no mass private vehicle ownership.

 

[T & P]

But your assumption is that your main vehicle (whatever you call it) will still be privately owned by you. This means your journey choices would still be heavily influenced by sunk/marginal cost factors. You are not yet ready for the idea of no mass private vehicle ownership.

And why would I, when banning private ownership will not translate in car-free cities, less pollution, or fewer journeys?

On the contrary: my single car jouney to work when the bike was being serviced would not have been an option if I'd owned my own car, as paying £25+ for parking for the day is an extravagance. But thanks to the wonder of car clubs, I was able to pick up a car parked on my street, drive myself to work, and leave it there, all for not much more than the public transport equivalent cost. So other than the sheer pleasure of seeing people banned from owning cars for the sake of it, I really don't see what benefits you actually expect it would bring. Chances are, there'll be more car journeys on cities such as London, not fewer.

 

[teuchter]

But thanks to the wonder of car clubs, I was able to pick up a car parked on my street, drive myself to work, and leave it there, all for not much more than the public transport equivalent cost.

Nonsense. I use car clubs too and I know what it costs. Most journeys will cost significantly more than the public transport equivalent. Hence, I only use it when public transport is not a viable option.

Why do you want to continue to own your bike? Because you have already decided that that's how you want to make the majority of your journeys. You've no interest in moving to public transport for every journey where it's feasible, because you don't actually want to do stuff to significantly reduce the number of motorised vehicles on the road (despite all the waffling on about how you're fully behind reductions but it just doesn't have to mean banning everything etc etc etc). You consider your own convenience to be of higher priority.

 

[platinumsage]

.…You've no interest in moving to public transport for every journey where it's feasible, because you don't actually want to do stuff to significantly reduce the number of motorised vehicles on the road (despite all the waffling on about how you're fully behind reductions but it just doesn't have to mean banning everything etc etc etc). You consider your own convenience to be of higher priority.

Most people don’t. Just like most people don’t want to do stuff to significantly reduce the carbon footprint of their housing by e.g. living in a tiny bedsit, as they consider their own convenience to be a higher priority.

A change to EV ownership will be considered by most people as a big and sufficient step in reducing the climate impact of their personal transportation. People aren’t then going to ditch their EVs to save the planet unless they’re taxed out of ownership, which I can’t see as being politically feasible while anyone alive today is still living i.e. until at least 2100 when the climate problem has been dealt with by other means.

 

[teuchter]

Most people don’t. Just like most people don’t want to do stuff to significantly reduce the carbon footprint of their housing by e.g. living in a tiny bedsit, as they consider their own convenience to be a higher priority.

A change to EV ownership will be considered by most people as a big and sufficient step in reducing the climate impact of their personal transportation. People aren’t then going to ditch their EVs to save the planet unless they’re taxed out of ownership, which I can’t see as being politically feasible while anyone alive today is still living i.e. until at least 2100 when the climate problem has been dealt with by other means.

Very characteristic of the transport dinosaur view is the assumption that all this is just about climate change emissions. The transport dinosaur is unable to see that cities where excessive private car use has been designed out, are more pleasant and convenient for their occupants. They are too old to change their thinking on this but I am hopeful that younger generations aren't.

 

[platinumsage]

Very characteristic of the transport dinosaur view is the assumption that all this is just about climate change emissions. The transport dinosaur is unable to see that cities where excessive private car use has been designed out, are more pleasant and convenient for their occupants. They are too old to change their thinking on this but I am hopeful that younger generations aren't.

Interesting that you saw it necessary to add the word "excessive" in there, to make your statement so vague that no one could reasonably disagree with it.

In Tokyo car ownership is 32% of households, so such cities are basically already here.

 

[maomao]

until at least 2100 when the climate problem has been dealt with by other means

Bit late to be counting on this. Unless by 'dealt with by other means' you mean allowing billions to starve and burn while a few developed countries fight over the remains.

 

[MickiQ]

And why would I, when banning private ownership will not translate in car-free cities, less pollution, or fewer journeys?

On the contrary: my single car jouney to work when the bike was being serviced would not have been an option if I'd owned my own car, as paying £25+ for parking for the day is an extravagance. But thanks to the wonder of car clubs, I was able to pick up a car parked on my street, drive myself to work, and leave it there, all for not much more than the public transport equivalent cost. So other than the sheer pleasure of seeing people banned from owning cars for the sake of it, I really don't see what benefits you actually expect it would bring. Chances are, there'll be more car journeys on cities such as London, not fewer.

Car clubs look like a great idea to me but they are very definitely a city dweller thing. Searching for my nearest car club reveals that the nearest one is 4.5 miles away with just one vehicle and no direct bus route. I would have to drive my car there and leave it on the car park in order to use the car club car.

Edit: and having looked on Google Maps I can see it there on the car park whenever the photo was taken. It's a Fiesta nice little car but not really suitable for when I need one.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Bit late to be counting on this. Unless by 'dealt with by other means' you mean allowing billions to starve and burn while a few developed countries fight over the remains.

It seems to have escaped some people but its a fact that we live on a planet with finite resources, so anything we do to alleviate climate change is merely an attempt to prolong the inevitable, but we're not prolonging anything, because we're going to run out of water before anything else kills us. We should come to terms with the fact that we're doomed, and live each day accordingly.

 

[maomao]

It seems to have escaped some people but its a fact that we live on a planet with finite resources, so anything we do to alleviate climate change is merely an attempt to prolong the inevitable, but we're not prolonging anything, because we're going to run out of water before anything else kills us. We should come to terms with the fact that we're doomed, and live each day accordingly.

Not sure that sort of decision should be left to incredibly privileged westerners with seemingly little to live for.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Not sure that sort of decision should be left to incredibly privileged westerners with seemingly little to live for.

But I'm not making the decisions. I'm merely acting on the decisions of others.
I reckon the end of this century will pretty much see the end of fresh water, at least to the extent that it'll become so scarce that the inevitable wars over it will turn much of the planet into an uninhabitable wasteland of radioactive fallout.

 

[teuchter]

Interesting that you saw it necessary to add the word "excessive" in there, to make your statement so vague that no one could reasonably disagree with it.

In Tokyo car ownership is 32% of households, so such cities are basically already here.

Such cities are indeed already here, but the transport dinosaurs want to prevent us having them in the UK.

 

[Spymaster]

Such cities are indeed already here, but the transport dinosaurs want to prevent us having them in the UK.

And they're winning