England vs. Slovenia

[thriller]

Read an interview from Joe Cole just before or after the first england game where he claimed Lampard could win the golden boot. Apparently (according to Joe) Franky boy can score goals and also take penalties. And if we win a few penalties, franky could end up with the Golden Boot at the end of the tournament.

 

[London_Calling]

It's not a cop out. It's a perfectly reasonable system that both Rooney and Gerrard play at club level.

Exactly, design the team around Gerrard. Again. Because that always works so well.

Why? because poor Stevie doesn't feel comfortable on the left and won't stay there and it costs the team too much defensively. And he fucks up the balance when he's put in midfield so he can't go there. Where next? Ah yes, play him as the second striker off Rooney when Rooney should be the second striker off Crouch, and as Rooney always has been until Man Utd had no choice. How many strikers did we take to South Africa, how many are injured, what other ridiculous lengths do people want to go to accommodate the absurd millstone that is Steven Gerrard?

Fuck me, it's like a cult.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Nowt wrong with designing a team around certain players. Chelsea design their team around Drogba, and it works ok.

I agree that Rooney off Crouch could work, except that they'd be route oneing it all the time to Crouch. Rooney off a goalhanger like Lineker would be a good system.

 

[London_Calling]

As did Liverpool.

And every England team has been built to include Gerrard, in increasingly bizarre positions.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Rooney should be the second striker off Crouch, and as Rooney always has been until Man Utd had no choice.

Picking up on this point, when Utd did change Rooney's role he started scoring a lot more goals...

Not saying it's the only factor to consider, but the man himself has said he prefers playing up front as a main striker.

 

[London_Calling]

He says that now. He didn't before and, guess what, he'll say different again when the circs change.

Really, what's he going to say to the media 'yeah, I don't like the way SAF plays me'?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not saying it's the only factor to consider, but the man himself has said he prefers playing up front as a main striker.

And I think this is the key point now. Rooney is playing abysmally. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it morally, giving Rooney and Gerrard what they want is the best way to inspire them to perform. Play to your strengths, which is Gerrard in the centre, Rooney up front.

 

[Lord Camomile]

He says that now. He didn't before and, guess what, he'll say different gain when the circs change.

Aye, I did wonder to be honest. Although I'm pretty sure even when he was playing with Ronaldo and Tevez he said he felt he wasn't being used to his best and wanted to be a more central stiker.

Like a few players, I think he can be a victim of his own versatility sometimes.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Really, what's he going to say to the media 'yeah, I don't like the way SAF plays me'?

Interesting point, that. He would never ever criticise the club manager publicly, yet many of the players have been coming out to say that they would prefer this or that to the media with the national manager. They know the manager can't sell them on, I suppose.

 

[London_Calling]

Like a few players, I think he can be a victim of his own versatility sometimes.

Maybe, although in this case it might be more to do with Gerrard's lack of versatility, or Gerrard's lack of willingness to be versatile.

It just drives me to despair sometimes: Right now, we've moving from accepting Capello's judgement that Gerrard is a better left-midfielder than Joe Cole to another absurdity, that Steven Gerrard is a better second striker than Rooney, or even Defoe.

How do people allow themselves to fall into this mindset . .

 

[Lord Camomile]

Really, what's he going to say to the media 'yeah, I don't like the way SAF plays me'?

Like I say, I'm pretty sure he did. Not sure if I can be arsed to find quotes though

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Right now, we've moved from accepting Capello's judgement that Gerrard is a better left-midfielder than Joe Cole

I never accepted this, tbf. I've been crying out for JC from the start.

 

[London_Calling]

Capello did though. The one man you hoped wouldn't succumb to this decade long cult of 'Stevie G'

 

[kabbes]

England are a much better side when, for whatever reason, Gerrard doesn't play.

I don't care the rights and wrongs or the whys and wherefores of it. I just care that it seems to be the consequence.

 

[thriller]

Interesting point, that. He would never ever criticise the club manager publicly, yet many of the players have been coming out to say that they would prefer this or that to the media with the national manager. They know the manager can't sell them on, I suppose.

Erm. Well he could end your international career by not selecting you.

 

[Paul Russell]

England played very well without Gerard when they won 1-4 against Croatia. Unfortunately the player who got a hat-trick didn't make the squad.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Unfortunately the player who got a hat-trick didn't make the squad.

Because he did very little of consequence ever since.

 

[Paul Russell]

Because he did very little of consequence ever since.

True but the potential was there in a team short of spark and he was, miraculously, fit. [adopts Alan Hansen voice]And you don't become a bad player overnight.

Can't help think that Capello cut off his nose to spite his face there -- effectively punishing Walcott for being naughty and not following Capello's game plans, instructions, etc.

Anyway, useless speculation. Walcott's not there. Upwards and onwards and probably downwards.

 

[Lord Camomile]

True but the potential was there in a team short of spark and he was, miraculously, fit. [adopts Alan Hansen voice]And you don't become a bad player overnight.

But it wasn't overnight, it was over a year or two. Admittedly I only particularly noticed it in the wamr up games before the tournament, but every time he got the ball he just didn't seem to know what to do, and invariably took too long to make a decision before being caught on the ball or failing to complete a pass. If he played to his potential he would be useful, but in the lead up to the World Cup there was no evidence he would play to that potential.

 

[Dr. Furface]

England played very well without Gerard when they won 1-4 against Croatia. Unfortunately the player who got a hat-trick didn't make the squad.

And Joe Cole started that game on the left - probably wouldn't have if Stevie G had been available - but only lasted 55 mins as he was assaulted by Kovac, which he was sent off for. And that was the turning point of the game - England were leading 1-0 then but I doubt they'd have notched up 4 against a full strength side.

 

[Paul Russell]

And Joe Cole started that game on the left - probably wouldn't have if Stevie G had been available - but only lasted 55 mins as he was assaulted by Kovac, which he was sent off for. And that was the turning point of the game - England were leading 1-0 then but I doubt they'd have notched up 4 against a full strength side.

Yeah, fair point.

 

[Dr. Furface]

But it wasn't overnight, it was over a year or two. Admittedly I only particularly noticed it in the wamr up games before the tournament, but every time he got the ball he just didn't seem to know what to do, and invariably took too long to make a decision before being caught on the ball or failing to complete a pass.

An approach which the rest of the side have since adopted!

 

[Proper Tidy]

4-3-3 is 4 at the back. Johnson, Upson, Terry, Cole.

If you wanted wingbacks you *could* go that way, but I would worry about the gap left behind Johnson as he aint all that going back. It would be a weak point that could be the achilles heel, especially as Terry wouldnt be fast enough to cover.

eta - anyway, it would be 4-3-3 when we attack and 4-5-1 when we defend. Thats just about the position of Lennon and Cole J depending on whats happening on the pitch

Yes, obviously 433 is four at the back - but that means the full-backs have to play as wing-backs to cover in lieu of wide midfielders. Or else it just ends up being 451, whether you are attacking or defending.

433 is rarely employed anymore for good reason. You have to have exceptional full-backs/wing-backs to pull it off, and now that most sides play fast-paced wide football it puts the full-backs/wing-backs under huge pressure. They'd have to cover around twice the distance of any other player to do their jobs effectively. Besides, it would mean Gerrard and Lampard playing along side each other in an even tighter confined area - doesn't strike me as playing to England's strengths.

But hey, I'd be a happy man if Capello went for it v Slovenia.

Personally, I'd say playing Gerrard behind Rooney in a 4411 would probably be the most effective structure, with Joe Cole wide left, but ultimately the formation isn't why England are struggling. They are struggling because they don't have the players to play possession football. Same as every tournament.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I'd go 4-3-3 like Mourinho uses.

451 then.

 

[AverageJoe]

Which is what I said

 

[Obnoxiousness]

Someone should phone the England hotel and say it's Frodo Capello (Fabio's brother) and that you need to leave him a message.

Dear Fabio,

Joe Cole left wing.

Message Ends:

 

[butchersapron]

I think we've balanced this perfectly. A masterstroke. We are now in the driving seat of the group.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I think we've balanced this perfectly. A masterstroke. We are now in the driving seat of the group.

If we're in the driving seat, then the steering wheel has come off and the brakes have failed.

 

[butchersapron]

That's what we're supposed to think.

 

[London_Calling]

If we're in the driving seat, then the steering wheel has come off and the brakes have failed.

and Butchers is in charge of the map . . .