Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
Come to think of it, I hope England lose this match, why prolong the agony? Let's get it over with quickly... less pain that way.
England vs. Slovenia
- Thread starter London_Calling
- Start date
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Mark Lawrenson's answer to the problem was about as predictable as you'll get; that England adopt Liverpool's 4-2-3-1. In other words pick the 10 Englishmen who can best replicate the players around Gerrard. You'd have thought we'd all seen how that works out already.
In case it wasn't clear, I am sick to fucking death of the millstone of Steven Gerrard and especially how entire teams get pulled out of shape and balance to make him look good and feel comfortable.
Time for coffee >
In case it wasn't clear, I am sick to fucking death of the millstone of Steven Gerrard and especially how entire teams get pulled out of shape and balance to make him look good and feel comfortable.
Time for coffee >
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Its do or die.
Let's hope teh fury of the England fans has seeped into the conciousness of these overpaid donkeys and it galvanises a goal fest.
Let's hope teh fury of the England fans has seeped into the conciousness of these overpaid donkeys and it galvanises a goal fest.
Dr. Furface
One small step for me
Capello must realise by now what everyone else has known for years - Gerrard and Lampard together just don't work. I'd keep Gerrard as he's more of an attacking threat, and Lampard was a total passenger on Friday. Carrick can't do any worse than he did and him and Barry together might just work out and give us more solidity - then again they might just get in each others way! - so Id try that. Ahead of them I'd go with Cole Gerrard and SWP supporting a lone striker, and as the best goal threat we've got is Crouch, it has to be him. Rooney will just have to accept that at the moment he isn't good enough - in any case, the mood he's in he'll probably get himself sent off anyway.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
On Wed, I'm almost inclined to do whatever Paul Scholes will be doing - playing golf presumably: I thought Capello was above this 'player power' media-driven bullshit.
Paul Russell
Psychogeographer
James
Johnson – Upson – Terry - A Cole
Lennon – Gerard – Barry – J Cole
Crouch - Rooney
or summat. Joe Cole must be pissed off he hasn't even made it on as a sub yet. He's usually played well for England, e.g. in the the last World Cup. Talking of the last WC, it's a shame Hargreaves is perma-crocked.
Johnson – Upson – Terry - A Cole
Lennon – Gerard – Barry – J Cole
Crouch - Rooney
or summat. Joe Cole must be pissed off he hasn't even made it on as a sub yet. He's usually played well for England, e.g. in the the last World Cup. Talking of the last WC, it's a shame Hargreaves is perma-crocked.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Terry: "Joe Cole and Rooney are the only two in the team who can open up the opposition".
Interesting to hear him so categorically single out two players, and by inference say something about the rest.
Interesting to hear him so categorically single out two players, and by inference say something about the rest.
AverageJoe
...
James
Johnson Upson Terry Cole
Lampard Barry Gerard
Lennon Rooney Cole
When we defend Lennon and Cole track back to make it 5 in midfield. Rooney prefers being up on his own. When we attack its imperative that Rooney hasnt dropped deep so there is someone to attack the ball.
Lennon and Cole *have* to get to the byline to put the balls in to allow Lampard or Gerrard (who ever is on the opposite flank) enough time to follow up and get the second ball if Rooney doesnt score.
So, as an example lets say that J.Cole puts the ball in from the left. You have Rooney in the middle, Lennon at the back covering the overhit ball and the back of the penalty area. Lampard comes in diagonally from the right midfield area to the edge of the box and Barry and Gerard hold in the area between the halfway line and the penalty area to pick up clearances.
If Lennon crosses then its the same except Gerard moves in from the left to penalty box with J.Cole covering the back of the penalty area and Lampard and Barry covering the midfield to pick up second balls/clearances.
However to do this effectively the cross *has* to come from the byeline, as this allows the players the time to get into position. If the cross comes in too early then there is only Rooney to aim at, and the attacking midfielder will be stranded in no mans land - between where he was and where he should have been - allowing for a gap the opposition can exploit.
This needs diagrams really, buts its pretty basic stuff
Johnson Upson Terry Cole
Lampard Barry Gerard
Lennon Rooney Cole
When we defend Lennon and Cole track back to make it 5 in midfield. Rooney prefers being up on his own. When we attack its imperative that Rooney hasnt dropped deep so there is someone to attack the ball.
Lennon and Cole *have* to get to the byline to put the balls in to allow Lampard or Gerrard (who ever is on the opposite flank) enough time to follow up and get the second ball if Rooney doesnt score.
So, as an example lets say that J.Cole puts the ball in from the left. You have Rooney in the middle, Lennon at the back covering the overhit ball and the back of the penalty area. Lampard comes in diagonally from the right midfield area to the edge of the box and Barry and Gerard hold in the area between the halfway line and the penalty area to pick up clearances.
If Lennon crosses then its the same except Gerard moves in from the left to penalty box with J.Cole covering the back of the penalty area and Lampard and Barry covering the midfield to pick up second balls/clearances.
However to do this effectively the cross *has* to come from the byeline, as this allows the players the time to get into position. If the cross comes in too early then there is only Rooney to aim at, and the attacking midfielder will be stranded in no mans land - between where he was and where he should have been - allowing for a gap the opposition can exploit.
This needs diagrams really, buts its pretty basic stuff
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Despite the occasional daydreams, I think I'd be incredibly frustrated as a football journalist; Terry just said very little aside from what you'd expect, which you can't really blame him for too much but I'd hate having to report that as 'news'.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
433?
You reckon England can play with wing-backs? Johnson and A Cole are both okay going forward but 433 puts a huge amount of pressure on them, and against opposition playing with full-backs and wingers/wide midfielders they have to be at the top of their game. Not sure Barry is the right sort of midfielder to drop back and help the defence when two of the centre-backs get pushed wide to cover Johnson & A Cole when they inevitably get caught out up the pitch.
Otherwise, Johnson and A Cole will end up playing as conventional full-backs, you'll just end up with Lennon and J Cole pushed back and playing as wingers, leaving Rooney alone up front and having Gerrard and Lampard getting in each other's way in the centre.
You reckon England can play with wing-backs? Johnson and A Cole are both okay going forward but 433 puts a huge amount of pressure on them, and against opposition playing with full-backs and wingers/wide midfielders they have to be at the top of their game. Not sure Barry is the right sort of midfielder to drop back and help the defence when two of the centre-backs get pushed wide to cover Johnson & A Cole when they inevitably get caught out up the pitch.
Otherwise, Johnson and A Cole will end up playing as conventional full-backs, you'll just end up with Lennon and J Cole pushed back and playing as wingers, leaving Rooney alone up front and having Gerrard and Lampard getting in each other's way in the centre.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Great time for the match, too. 3pm on a Wednesday. Is it really worth slipping out of work early to watch another mind-numbingly tedious performance and struggling to get a draw with Slovenia? Still, maybe a miracle will occur and we'll scrape through.
Dr. Furface
One small step for me
Why not? - he used to play central defence for Villa (though admittedly quite a few seasons ago).
Proper Tidy
Arsed
He's prone to being a bit pensive on the pitch, not a great idea in the event you are the last man
Let's try to avoid irritating cliches, please.
g force
Affects Shatner's Basoon
It's pretty clear lampard, heskey and crouch should never get near an England side again. I swear looking at the line up it was 4 or 5 years ago minus Beckham? And why the fuck is he with the team? A reminder of past failures at major tournaments.
Part of me wonders if it wouldn't be better for England to get knocked out so someone has the balls to start again from fresh. These same players hve failed on evey occassion and do nothin to suggest they'll reverese that this world cup
Part of me wonders if it wouldn't be better for England to get knocked out so someone has the balls to start again from fresh. These same players hve failed on evey occassion and do nothin to suggest they'll reverese that this world cup
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I booked the day off as soon as the fixtures were announced
Wasn't that supposed to be the point of Euro 2008?
Paul Russell
Psychogeographer
Crouch? He was given about 10 minutes in both games and has a fantastic scoring record for England.
AverageJoe
...
4-3-3 is 4 at the back. Johnson, Upson, Terry, Cole.
If you wanted wingbacks you *could* go that way, but I would worry about the gap left behind Johnson as he aint all that going back. It would be a weak point that could be the achilles heel, especially as Terry wouldnt be fast enough to cover.
eta - anyway, it would be 4-3-3 when we attack and 4-5-1 when we defend. Thats just about the position of Lennon and Cole J depending on whats happening on the pitch
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Clearly, you'd have to have a holding midfielder who could fill the gap whenever Johnson came forward. It can be a great system, but as Cameroon showed last night, if the midfielder in question is not up to scratch defensively, it can backfire badly.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
We'd be top with eight goals and two clean sheets to our name if Hargreaves had been fit 
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Oh, and I still don't understand why Johnson doesn't just move up to being a right winger - guy has very little business being a right-back.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
If he's advocating Joe Cole - which most people understand is the only viable option at this point - he must also be advocating dropping someone from midfield:
His best mate Lampard?
The only left footer and the man who does bring balance and shape, Barry?
The right-ring speed merchant - Lennon or SWP?
Or Gerrard?
John Terry - who is it you want dropped?
of course, the cop out! Drop Heskey, and play . . . . . guess who, Steven Gerrard off Rooney.
So what would that be, Gerrard in 4 positions so far with the team more and more convoluted to accomodate him?
We'd be top with eight goals and two clean sheets to our name if Hargreaves had been fit
He isn't there, so pointless bringing Hargreaves into this.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Or none of the above. You drop Heskey and play five in midfield – Barry as the holding midfielder, giving both Gerrard and Lampard licence to move forward to support Rooney up front. It's the system they've all wanted from the start, clearly.
AverageJoe
...
yeah I wouldnt go wing backs.
I'd go 4-3-3 like Mourinho uses. The two attacking wide men coming back when we defend to make it 4-5-1, or even 4-1-4-1 with Barry providing the '1' cover
Thing is - none of the players are that daft that this cant be pointed out with diagrams. Its like when I manage teams and you point out something really obvious like getting the attacker to shoot across the goal towards the far post - that was if the goalie doesnt gather cleanly he can *only* push the ball back out onto the pitch - thats how Lineker scored so many. Once its pointed out its amazing how many strikers facepalm and think you are a genius - and this isnt just kids - even teenagers dont always get it
I'd go 4-3-3 like Mourinho uses. The two attacking wide men coming back when we defend to make it 4-5-1, or even 4-1-4-1 with Barry providing the '1' cover
Thing is - none of the players are that daft that this cant be pointed out with diagrams. Its like when I manage teams and you point out something really obvious like getting the attacker to shoot across the goal towards the far post - that was if the goalie doesnt gather cleanly he can *only* push the ball back out onto the pitch - thats how Lineker scored so many. Once its pointed out its amazing how many strikers facepalm and think you are a genius - and this isnt just kids - even teenagers dont always get it
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
As much as I've grown to appreciate Heskey's... contribution, I do think it's at least worth trying a 5-man midfield, especially if it gets Joe Cole on the pitch.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's not a cop out. It's a perfectly reasonable system that both Rooney and Gerrard play at club level.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yep. I don't blame Heskey at all for England's abject performances so far. He is not one of the flops. But the rest of the team clearly cannot resist playing hoof and rush when Heskey is in the team, so he has to go.
