Employer expecting employee to use personal phone for work?

[Herbsman.]

If an employee is required to take photos every day as part of their job, is it reasonable for the employer to expect the employee to use their own camera phone?

Where does that employee then stand with regards to accidental damage i.e. if the phone was dropped on the floor and then broken?

 

[Santino]

No, it's not. They should provide a camera or phone.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, it's not. They should provide a camera or phone.

or both

 

[Teaboy]

I'm noticing more and more of this sort of crap. I have to work from home a fair bit and in years gone by the company would pay for the internet and provide everything required for a home office. Nowadays I have to pay for my own internet and recently got turned down for a printer for work stuff, they cost so little as well.

It's appalling penny pinching.

 

[Looby]

My husband doesn't have a work phone but people call his mobile a lot as he remotely manages a team. I keep bugging him to ask for a work phone as although it doesn't cost him anything, it does mean that he gets calls and texts when he gets home or is on leave. He was getting calls at Glastonbury when his out of office was on and clearly being fucking ignored. [emoji35]

 

[kabbes]

I'm noticing more and more of this sort of crap. I have to work from home a fair bit and in years gone by the company would pay for the internet and provide everything required for a home office. Nowadays I have to pay for my own internet and recently got turned down for a printer for work stuff, they cost so little as well.

It's appalling penny pinching.

If they do pay for Internet, you'll get taxed on it n'all

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Nowadays I have to pay for my own internet and recently got turned down for a printer for work stuff, they cost so little as well.

It's appalling penny pinching.

Quite, so cough up and buy your own printer, tight-wad


But seriously, as kabbes says you'll be taxed for the perk of internet if work provides it. The correct thing is for you to provide it and come to an arrangement where you say 70% of internet use is for work, so they pay you back for 70% of the bill.

 

[Teaboy]

Quite, so cough up and buy your own printer, tight-wad


But seriously, as kabbes says you'll be taxed for the perk of internet if work provides it. The correct thing is for you to provide it and come to an arrangement where you say 70% of internet use is for work, so they pay you back for 70% of the bill.

Well I just don't print anything for work, I just email it to head office and get them to print it and post it to me, its petty I know but it proves a point I think. Broadband is only a few quid but again, its part of a trend which this thread is about.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

its part of a trend

Of course. Much of this is penny-pinching, much else is led by HMRC doing folk for perks too.

First they came for the company car drivers and I said nowt...etc.

 

[bi0boy]

If an employee is required to take photos every day as part of their job, is it reasonable for the employer to expect the employee to use their own camera phone?

Where does that employee then stand with regards to accidental damage i.e. if the phone was dropped on the floor and then broken?

At least you can use this to get some money if they make you use your personal shit: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-tax-relief-for-expenses-of-employment-p87

 

[NoXion]

But seriously, as kabbes says you'll be taxed for the perk of internet if work provides it.

How is that supposed to work? I've worked at places that provided internet access and I've worked at places that didn't, and as far as I know my payslips showed the same proportion of taxes being deducted every time.

 

[kabbes]

How is that supposed to work? I've worked at places that provided internet access and I've worked at places that didn't, and as far as I know my payslips showed the same proportion of taxes being deducted every time.

Employer providing Internet at home became a taxable benefit in kind about 2 years ago. 2013-14, IIRC

 

[porp]

I'm noticing more and more of this sort of crap. I have to work from home a fair bit and in years gone by the company would pay for the internet and provide everything required for a home office. Nowadays I have to pay for my own internet and recently got turned down for a printer for work stuff, they cost so little as well.

It's appalling penny pinching.

It is - and employers get away with it, because they can, and because standing up for yourself is so last century. And with laptops and phones, many people see them and use them as toys, not as instruments of work, so why not use your fun toy thing at work? This is a piece of particular genius - I'm not aware that, say, 19th-century mill owners were a able to persuade their workers to carry mini-looms around with them,or to persuade their mill hands that the fun/work should carry on after hours.

 

[equationgirl]

More and more companies are bringing in what's known as a 'bring your own device' policy, which is where a personal phone is used for work purposes.

There are issues around confidential information that need to be managed as well as tax issues. The policy should make it clear how company information will be used and managed, and what should happen to the data if the employee leaves the company.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

More and more companies are bringing in what's known as a 'bring your own device' policy, which is where a personal phone is used for work purposes.

There are issues around confidential information that need to be managed as well as tax issues. The policy should make it clear how company information will be used and managed, and what should happen to the data if the employee leaves the company.

BYOD is a nuisance for lots of reasons.

 

[equationgirl]

BYOD is a nuisance for lots of reasons.

I know

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I actually prefer carrying my own phone, it's one less to device to carry and I'd just get issued an old school thing with buttons that would be hard to text on. I get unlimited mins on my contract, so it doesn't cost me anything.

 

[Miss Caphat]

It's the worst. We have to use our own cell phones at work, and very predictably none of the people we interact with are aware of that fact. And then they feel like they've been intrusive when they find out. It puts employees in an awkward position

 

[farmerbarleymow]

It's the worst. We have to use our own cell phones at work, and very predictably none of the people we interact with are aware of that fact. And then they feel like they've been intrusive when they find out. It puts employees in an awkward position

In the past I've diverted my office phone to my personal mobile (before I got a work one). Useful for when I was working at different sites of course, but the downside was that there was no way of cancelling the divert apart from going to the office. So I used to regularly get calls from random members of the public when I was on leave. I always helped them where I could, even if I was stood in the middle of a supermarket.

 

[Herbsman.]

So let's say the employee's manager has completely ignored multiple emails asking for the company to buy a camera due to it being required for the job they're asking to be done. Could they potentially get in trouble for replying with 'no, use your phone'? i.e. are there any laws that state that an employer can't force an employee to use their own equipment to do their job, or that they must be compensated if they're required to do so?

Not trying to be awkward nor actually wanting to get anyone in trouble, just curious as to where they stand.

'Why haven't you taken photos of (x) to go with (y)' made me laugh. You tried taking photos on a Nokia 3210 mate?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

So let's say the employee's manager has completely ignored multiple emails asking for the company to buy a camera due to it being required for the job they're asking to be done. Could they potentially get in trouble for replying with 'no, use your phone'? i.e. are there any laws that state that an employer can't force an employee to use their own equipment to do their job, or that they must be compensated if they're required to do so?

Not trying to be awkward nor actually wanting to get anyone in trouble, just curious as to where they stand.

'Why haven't you taken photos of (x) to go with (y)' made me laugh. You tried taking photos on a Nokia 3210 mate?

Ask to see their BYOD policy and also ask what insurance they have to cover potential loss or damage

 

[toggle]

So let's say the employee's manager has completely ignored multiple emails asking for the company to buy a camera due to it being required for the job they're asking to be done. Could they potentially get in trouble for replying with 'no, use your phone'? i.e. are there any laws that state that an employer can't force an employee to use their own equipment to do their job, or that they must be compensated if they're required to do so?

Not trying to be awkward nor actually wanting to get anyone in trouble, just curious as to where they stand.

'Why haven't you taken photos of (x) to go with (y)' made me laugh. You tried taking photos on a Nokia 3210 mate?

that's the interesting bit to me, the expectation that the employee will have suitable equipment.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

So let's say the employee's manager has completely ignored multiple emails asking for the company to buy a camera due to it being required for the job they're asking to be done. Could they potentially get in trouble for replying with 'no, use your phone'? i.e. are there any laws that state that an employer can't force an employee to use their own equipment to do their job, or that they must be compensated if they're required to do so?

Not trying to be awkward nor actually wanting to get anyone in trouble, just curious as to where they stand.

'Why haven't you taken photos of (x) to go with (y)' made me laugh. You tried taking photos on a Nokia 3210 mate?

They have to provide you with the equipment to do a job, if they want you to do that job. (I'm assuming you're not freelance here.) BYOD is a side issue—that sort of policy is generally about letting an employee use their own devices _if they want to_ rather than company ones.

"My phone's bust, camera doesn't work any more."

 

[Chick Webb]

It's a disgrace for an emloyer to ask this.

I'm loathe to tell this story because it marks me out as a mug but anyway. Recently one of those vegetable box reps charmed me into signing up for their box and recipes. After I agreed she asked to use my phone to phone back to head office and sign me up! At that stage I was thinking this doesn't seem like that reputable an operation.

 

[discobastard]

Surely depends on:
a) is it going to cost you money
b) if it is, is there a mechanism for claiming it back
c) if it is going to cost you money (data, minutes) but a negligible amount, can you not just trade it off in terms of benefits in kind (i.e. they don't mind if you're 15 minutes late, they provide lots of tea, coffee and biscuits)

It can be totally fine for them to ask you to do so, you just need to work out what your boundaries, whether it is fair, whether you like your employer etc.

If they are taking the piss, then make an issue out of it. If they aren't, don't. It will be different in every case.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Parcelforce are one company that doesn't give drivers company-issue mobiles. So if you order anything that uses them as a courier, and you live in a block of flats with a security fence round it, there's a very high chance you'll have to trek to the depot to collect. Regardless of how many times you've told them to ring you when they arrive. Some drivers will use their own mobile, but that's the exception to the rule in my experience. It's a ridiculous policy for a company delivering stuff.

 

[dylanredefined]

More and more companies are bringing in what's known as a 'bring your own device' policy, which is where a personal phone is used for work purposes.

There are issues around confidential information that need to be managed as well as tax issues. The policy should make it clear how company information will be used and managed, and what should happen to the data if the employee leaves the company.

It's on my device it's mine. You want the data secure you can pay for it. seems reasonable.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

It's on my device it's mine. You want the data secure you can pay for it. seems reasonable.

Legally that's not the case though. So if you store personal data that the employer is responsible for as a data controller on your own phone or computer they could reasonably instruct you to hand it over. Refusal would invariably lead to disciplinary action. The same applies for any other data that isn't personal data if you work in a public authority that is subject to the FOIA.

 

[existentialist]

Surely depends on:
a) is it going to cost you money
b) if it is, is there a mechanism for claiming it back
c) if it is going to cost you money (data, minutes) but a negligible amount, can you not just trade it off in terms of benefits in kind (i.e. they don't mind if you're 15 minutes late, they provide lots of tea, coffee and biscuits)

It can be totally fine for them to ask you to do so, you just need to work out what your boundaries, whether it is fair, whether you like your employer etc.

If they are taking the piss, then make an issue out of it. If they aren't, don't. It will be different in every case.

I agree that a background of goodwill has its part to play - if you're working for a firm that treats you well, is prepared to be flexible where necessary, and so on, then you'd be a bit mad to chuck all that up just to make a point about being provided a phone. And, speaking as someone who, at one point, had phones provided by two different employers, plus his own, there are advantages to just having one - your own.

But my experience has tended to be that the kind of employer who'd expect you to use your own stuff to get the job done is also the same kind of employer who isn't keen to cut a little slack elsewhere.

At which point, I think my strategy would be to get hold of the tattiest old Nokia brick I could find, complete (ideally) with cheapo SIM, and appoint it my "company phone". It would be taken out and left on the table at every opportunity in company meetings, and would have a camera that produced blocky, grainy images that, ideally, would need a special cable and dodgy software on a PC to download. All with the aim of making it as inconvenient as possible for the company to continue expecting me to use my own kit.

I've tried similar tactics in the past, with some degree of success

 

[equationgirl]

It's on my device it's mine. You want the data secure you can pay for it. seems reasonable.

Not if it's company owned information such a business strategy or other confidential information especially any information covered by the data protection act.