DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Tell me about it , plus all the new E-bikers who have never really ridden a bike about town before. I actually stood in a pedestrian crossing today and held one up and said 'stop.'
Electric scooters
- Thread starter TopCat
- Start date
What monster's
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Not specific to electric bikes/scooters is it? I seem to remember seeing a lot of Boris bikes kencycles being ridden badly all over the road by clueless berks. Perhaps some of these hire companies could at the very least require users to do some kind of basic online training and assessment before being allowed to take to the road.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Plenty of bad road users in all types of vehicles, many who have been trained, tested and/or licenced.
Especially those whose training was decades ago, is out of date, but they insist they know the rules even though they don't and refuse to update their knowledge.
Personally I'd rather have shitty road users on scooters or ebikes than in cars or vans.
Especially those whose training was decades ago, is out of date, but they insist they know the rules even though they don't and refuse to update their knowledge.
Personally I'd rather have shitty road users on scooters or ebikes than in cars or vans.
Hollis
bloody furious
You make the usual assumption that most of them would otherwise be driving a car or a van. Around here, the average escooter rider doesn't look like they've just traded in their Volvo.
Also, your assuming that riding an escooter irresponsibly would translate directly into driving a car badly - not necessarily so..
There's also the point that cars and vans tend not to be driven deliberately and dangeously along pavements of residential streets.
I've wittnessed some real twattish behaviour by escooter riders around here in the last week on pavements. Not to mention roads.. that some of them are dumb enough to put themselves at risk, not using lights, riding down the wrong side of the road, meandering across roads in front of cars.. suggests they're not going to give too much of a shit about anyone else either..
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Hollis
bloody furious
Where I work there's a Boris Bike stand 50 meteres down the road.. loads of idiots on the things.. again unable to tell the difference between a road and a pavement.
steveseagull
Well-Known Member
15MPH Escooters equals bikes mate. Either clamp down on both their transgressions or carry on as normal.
steveseagull
Well-Known Member
Are you sure they are escooters? Everyone I have seen has come with lights which the default setting is on when you switch the thing on.
I have been seeing twattish behaviour from car drivers all my life. Difference being the cars (worse SUVs) kill people.
Some people are dicks. Does not make a difference if they are walking, cycling, on motorbike or whatever. Being a dick in a ton of metal will always be a worse outcome.
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BigTom
Well-Known Member
This is data from 2019 so prior to the hire scooter schemes. Given the relative similarities weight, speed and use of scooters to cycles I don't think it's unfair to make assumptions that scooters would show up similarly small in the stats. 65% of pedestrian deaths involved a car, 1% involved cycles so assumption here is that scooters will be similar - way less of a danger to pedestrians than cars.
Drivers don't treat pavements with respect but I agree that outside of some specific places they don't use them like some scooter riders and cyclists do, but all the rest come on... drivers always speed (actually about 50% of them in 30mph roads), on their phones not paying attention, kids in the back arguing and distracting them, never give way to pedestrians crossing side roads, close passing cyclists etc etc etc... but of course in that 1-2ton car you are way more of a danger to other people. And if you look through that report you'll see just how dangerous car drivers are to other road users, and just how slight the danger to other road users is from cyclists (and by extension, scooters) by comparison.
e2a to answer your main point - people have to travel some way. The attitude someone has when travelling is going to define the attitude they take to other people. Infrastructure influences decisions (I don't think many of them would be on the pavement if there was a safe cycle/scooter lane to use) but you can ride on the pavement in a safe and respectful manner, or in a shitty dangerous manner, and that's entirely down to the person riding. Same on the road, you can travel in a safe manner or in a dangerous one and that's down to the person. A shitty, selfish, dangerous scooter rider doesn't suddenly become a good, attentative, generous driver.
Hollis
bloody furious
Re last point - infrastruture, consequences and culture can all alter these things. There's currently a massive problem with escooter culture - in part because it is unregulated. Lots of riders are currrently not treating them like a responsible mode of transport...(See motorbikes in 1970s...)
Other point is I'm not here to defend cars in any way.. but equally we shouldn't use them to ignore the problems with other forms of transport. And finally this isn't all about KSI.. there was some report out last week about why more people don't cycle - it was down to perception that there were too many near misses. Actually as I understand it cycling is still relatively safe, but the perception is that it isn't because of behaviour of drivers. Same with escooters on pavements.. they may be less likely to kill you, but you still don't like walking around a blind corner if you think there's some guy on an escootter whizzing around the other way.. there's loads of stuff out there on cyclists and perception of risk.
Other point is I'm not here to defend cars in any way.. but equally we shouldn't use them to ignore the problems with other forms of transport. And finally this isn't all about KSI.. there was some report out last week about why more people don't cycle - it was down to perception that there were too many near misses. Actually as I understand it cycling is still relatively safe, but the perception is that it isn't because of behaviour of drivers. Same with escooters on pavements.. they may be less likely to kill you, but you still don't like walking around a blind corner if you think there's some guy on an escootter whizzing around the other way.. there's loads of stuff out there on cyclists and perception of risk.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Those figures are highly misleading. If you adjust them per km traveled you get a very different picture - cars are the safest form of transport for other road users i.e. those not in the vehicle concerned. Buses and coaches are the most dangerous to pedestrians.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
oh I agree, I just get frustrated when people make a seemingly exceptional case for one particular mode of transport. It's not about ignoring problems with other modes, but accepting problems with all modes and not singling out one of them (especially when it's a vulnerable group who then get targetted by dickheads)
BigTom
Well-Known Member
That stat is not in that report so you'll want to source it.
I would expect that pedestrians and cycles are less dangerous per mile travelled than cars, although yes other forms of transport are probably more. iirc cycles account for around 2% of miles travelled but less than 1% of pedestrian deaths. I cannot remember at all what portion of miles travelled is by car, I'm willing to believe it's less than 65% and that goods vehicles, buses and coaches account for a disproportionate amount of pedestrian deaths but I doubt that cars are safer for pedestrians than other pedestrians or cyclists.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
It's all in here but you might need to get your calculator out.
www.gov.uk/government/statistics/road-traffic-estimates-in-great-britain-2019
www.gov.uk/government/statistics/road-traffic-estimates-in-great-britain-2019
Scooters on pavements is worse than Hitler
Am surprised they can use the pavements given how many cars are parked on them.
Not to mention how much hassle/danger it causes wheelchair users, pushchair pushers and others.
Still...
Dangerous scooter monsters are the WORST
Am surprised they can use the pavements given how many cars are parked on them.
Not to mention how much hassle/danger it causes wheelchair users, pushchair pushers and others.
Still...
Dangerous scooter monsters are the WORST
Hollis
bloody furious
So we're back to using cars as an excuse for ignoring/trivialising the new dangers caused by escooters on pavements...
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Hollis
bloody furious
Yeah - I'm familiar with thoses statistics. Again it doesn't detract from the need to address safety on escooters. This report is from same PACT committeee.
https://www.pacts.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/e-scooters-PACTS-position-v2.pdf
Though I apprectiate its ironic that some cyclists and escooter riders want to ignore any danger they're causing... because cars. Nice piece of rhetoric - but not really an argument.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Used a hire scooter to get to pub obviously not back from Still perfer a bicycle. Their fun wouldn't want to use one everyday. You feel the entire road no suspension.
You admit that there are car and van drivers who also ignore danger I assume?
Would rather be hit by a cyclist or scooter every day of the week.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
Yeah this is how I feel about them, scooters are easier to fall off than bikes and all the hire ones are going to be basic spec in either bike or scooter. Electric bikes are just more versatile. The town near me seems to have replaced the electric bike hire with scooter hire though. When e scooters are legal for use by anyone and not just hired out, that'll be a bit better cos they are easier to sling in the boot of a car, take on train etc that will make it possible to park and ride type transport.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
As I said before, it's not about that. I just get frustrated by particular mode of transport being singled out, especially when that is a vulnerable road user who will inevitably get targeted by dickheads.
As far as safety goes, I would want to see proper cycle/scooter lanes built and see how that changes things for pedestrians.
They’re all cunts. But the parked cars aren’t moving towards me.
Hopefully pedestrians and especially wheelchair users cope okay in the road where cars are moving.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Given the habit most cyclists have of riding on the pavement even when there is a perfectly good cycle lane available not a lot I would imagine. Unless they walk in the cycle lane which is probably the safest place be as a pedestrian. In fact I might start walking in cycle lanes from now on.
'most cyclists' is bullshit and you know it ffs
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Really isn't in my experience.
You are deluded then
