Electric scooters

[emanymton]

Really isn't in my experience.

Wasn't funny the other week when some cunt nearly hit it they threatened me for being in his why while I was on the pavement despite their being a cycle line lane. But sure Badgers you laugh and I will persist in my opinion that most people on a bike are irresponsible and dangerous and a much bigger risk to me than people in cars. Because that is my experience.

 

[BigTom]

Given the habit most cyclists have of riding on the pavement even when there is a perfectly good cycle lane available not a lot I would imagine. Unless they walk in the cycle lane which is probably the safest place be as a pedestrian. In fact I might start walking in cycle lanes from now on.

If by a "perfectly good cycle lane" you mean a bit of paint, maybe with some plastic bollards at best, then I'm not surprised, you might think these are "perfectly good" but in fact they are not and paint alone is often more dangerous than nothing at all. There are two "perfectly good cycle lanes" in Birmingham, one of which I use reasonably often and prior to the cycle lane being installed every cyclist used the pavement, now they all use the cycle lane. I don't see the other one very often but when I've been up that way, and seen a cyclist, they've always been in the cycle lane.
Same with people using scooters on that road btw.

 

[teuchter]

Don't be fooled by the 'per km travelled' stuff above - that's relevant if you're looking at the danger to the occupants of the vehicle travelling, but less so if you are looking at the danger to pedestrians in a pedestrian environment.

The relevant numbers would be how many of each vehicle a pedestrian encounters per km that they walk. In some places where there's very little cycling, then sure most of the vehicles they encounter will be cars not cyclists. In other places it will be the other way around. Are pedestrian deaths and injuries higher in places where there is a high level of cycling? Don't think so.

 

[Badgers]

Wasn't funny the other week when some cunt nearly hit it they threatened me for being in his why while I was on the pavement despite their being a cycle line lane. But sure Badgers you laugh and I will persist in my opinion that most people on a bike are irresponsible and dangerous and a much bigger risk to me than people in cars. Because that is my experience.

That is your biased opinion, not your experience as you well know.

in my opinion that most people on a bike are irresponsible and dangerous and a much bigger risk to me than people in cars.

You are losing all credibility sad to say

 

[emanymton]

If by a "perfectly good cycle lane" you mean a bit of paint, maybe with some plastic bollards at best, then I'm not surprised, you might think these are "perfectly good" but in fact they are not and paint alone is often more dangerous than nothing at all. There are two "perfectly good cycle lanes" in Birmingham, one of which I use reasonably often and prior to the cycle lane being installed every cyclist used the pavement, now they all use the cycle lane. I don't see the other one very often but when I've been up that way, and seen a cyclist, they've always been in the cycle lane.
Same with people using scooters on that road btw.

Cyclist and scooter riders always take the path of least ristance whether that is the road, pavement or cycle path.

This is most obvious on the walk from my flat to the train and bus station. It is quite common to seen bikes and scotters on the road at one point (but still a minority) as that is where the they can pick up the most speed as they don't have to weave round pedestrians. But the road then takes a big loop round a pedestrianised area. Every single person on a bike or scotter goes right through the pedestrianised area. I have never seen a single person follow the road. Every single one would rather risk hitting other people than add a minute to their journey. They are not even in rush most of the time as they are still waiting at the train station when I get there.

 

[emanymton]

That is your biased opinion, not your experience as you well know.



You are losing all credibility sad to say

FFS as a pedestrian I have never been close to being hit by a car walking along the pavement it is daily with bikes and now scooters. It is not an opinion but a fact that I am more likely to be hit by a cyclist than a car driver and there are many more cars out there. The fact that is is probably not as likely to kill me doesn't really make be feel all that better.

Also I don't think it is a good look to laugh at people being threatened but hey you do you.

 

[pbsmooth]

To say threat of bicycles is worse than cars is Trump levels of delusion. "My experience" as if that's relevant to wider debate. I just stubbed my toe and now believe that skirting boards are the greatest threat to human life on the planet. COS IT HAPPENED TO MEEEEE.

 

[Badgers]

FFS as a pedestrian I have never been close to being hit by a car walking along the pavement it is daily with bikes and now scooters. It is not an opinion but a fact that I am more likely to be hit by a cyclist than a car driver and there are many more cars out there. The fact that is is probably not as likely to kill me doesn't really make be feel all that better.

Also I don't think it is a good look to laugh at people being threatened but hey you do you.

You are an army of one

 

[Badgers]

Driver arrested for GBH after car mounts pavement and hits two pedestrians

TWO pedestrians were hit by a car which mounted the pavement in the early hours of the morning, police said.

www.thenorthernecho.co.uk

Car mounts pavement and seriously injures man in hit-and-run crash

A man was seriously injured when a car mounted a pavement and crashed into him in a Black Country town centre.

www.expressandstar.com

Arrests made after car 'mounts pavement and ploughs into pedestrian'

Three men were arrested on suspicion of causing serious injury by dangerous driving

www.mylondon.news

Attempted murder probe after car mounts pavement and mows down man in Edinburgh

Police in Edinburgh are investigating the incident which took place on Restalrig Avenue near the junction with Craigentinny Avenue at about 4.30pm on Friday.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

 

[emanymton]

To say threat of bicycles is worse than cars is Trump levels of delusion. "My experience" as if that's relevant to wider debate. I just stubbed my toe and now believe that skirting boards are the greatest threat to human life on the planet. COS IT HAPPENED TO MEEEEE.

Relative to the number of vehicles out there and the amount of time I am exposed to them as a pedestrian I am far more likely to be hit by a bike than a car.

Even without correcting for the number of vehicles it is still more likely I will be hit by a bike.

I am surprised anyone disagrees with this and to think otherwise is what is delusional.

Previously people have argued that being hit by a bike is less dangerous therefore theyare still better. Which is a fair point although I don't full agree with it.

 

[emanymton]

Driver arrested for GBH after car mounts pavement and hits two pedestrians

TWO pedestrians were hit by a car which mounted the pavement in the early hours of the morning, police said.

www.thenorthernecho.co.uk

Car mounts pavement and seriously injures man in hit-and-run crash

A man was seriously injured when a car mounted a pavement and crashed into him in a Black Country town centre.

www.expressandstar.com

Arrests made after car 'mounts pavement and ploughs into pedestrian'

Three men were arrested on suspicion of causing serious injury by dangerous driving

www.mylondon.news

Attempted murder probe after car mounts pavement and mows down man in Edinburgh

Police in Edinburgh are investigating the incident which took place on Restalrig Avenue near the junction with Craigentinny Avenue at about 4.30pm on Friday.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

What's your point?

 

[Badgers]

What's your point?

There are many many links with similar stories.

Still, cars are fine for safety and climate so those evil cyclists and scooter riders need to be dragged over the coals.

 

[BigTom]

Cyclist and scooter riders always take the path of least ristance whether that is the road, pavement or cycle path.

This is most obvious on the walk from my flat to the train and bus station. It is quite common to seen bikes and scotters on the road at one point (but still a minority) as that is where the they can pick up the most speed as they don't have to weave round pedestrians. But the road then takes a big loop round a pedestrianised area. Every single person on a bike or scotter goes right through the pedestrianised area. I have never seen a single person follow the road. Every single one would rather risk hitting other people than add a minute to their journey. They are not even in rush most of the time as they are still waiting at the train station when I get there.

So not a cycle lane there for them to use, i don't know why you've given this example after what you said. Of course people will take the shorter route rather than a longer one on the road (especially if the road is dangerous to use).

A proper cycle lane is the path of least resistance. They are fast and safe. Pavement are slow and safe. Roads are fast and dangerous.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Given the habit most cyclists have of riding on the pavement even when there is a perfectly good cycle lane available not a lot I would imagine. Unless they walk in the cycle lane which is probably the safest place be as a pedestrian. In fact I might start walking in cycle lanes from now on.

If somone is choosing the pavement over a cycle lane it’s a pretty good indicator that said lane is not “perfectly good”.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

FFS as a pedestrian I have never been close to being hit by a car walking along the pavement it is daily with bikes and now scooters. It is not an opinion but a fact that I am more likely to be hit by a cyclist than a car driver and there are many more cars out there. The fact that is is probably not as likely to kill me doesn't really make be feel all that better.

Also I don't think it is a good look to laugh at people being threatened but hey you do you.

Can we just laugh at you trotting out tired old cliched bullshit instead then?

 

[Gromit]

You admit that there are car and van drivers who also ignore danger I assume?

Would rather be hit by a cyclist or scooter every day of the week.

I would rather hit another car than a cyclist or scooter coming out of nowhere.

Even though it's 100% likely to have been their fault I'll end up having to prove that whilst undergoing the trauma and guilt of being involved in the death of someone with the family and their lawyer blaming me.

 

[Badgers]

I would rather hit another car than a cyclist or scooter coming out of nowhere.

Sums you up

 

[Gromit]

Sums you up

Yep. I'd rather not kill someone (and that's less likely with a car on car collision).
That does indeed sum me up.

 

[platinumsage]

If somone is choosing the pavement over a cycle lane it’s a pretty good indicator that said lane is not “perfectly good”.

I take it you support car drivers taking the law into their own hands if the main carriageway is poorly surfaced or partially obstructed?

 

[xenon]

cyclists and escooter riders on the pavement, except kids, are fair game for knocking off. Clothes line the fuckers. Brick like object if you have one to hand, wheely bin, A board through the window of cars doing the same obv.

Sorted.

 

[xenon]

If somone is choosing the pavement over a cycle lane it’s a pretty good indicator that said lane is not “perfectly good”.

Shame but they still have 2 reasonable choices. Get in the road or walk.

 

[Hollis]

As I said before, it's not about that. I just get frustrated by particular mode of transport being singled out, especially when that is a vulnerable road user who will inevitably get targeted by dickheads.
As far as safety goes, I would want to see proper cycle/scooter lanes built and see how that changes things for pedestrians.

You'd have a point if there was a general thread about road accidents and pedestrian safety and everyone was just going on about escooters. It isn't. It's a thread about escooters. Presumably the fact there there are car licences, points and the Highway Code indicate some attempt to control & limit cars - if I had my way I'd massively increase road safety measures and penalties for cars - but you also have to deal with what is possible over time. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread.. it makes sense if you want escooters (and cycles) to be new mass forms of transports to come down on those that are basically treating the things like toys and creating new dangers . Assuming you don't ride on pavements or through pedestrian crossings why are you so bothered by it? I get that you may be annoyed that motorists get away with loads of things, (I stopped cycling myself because I found it too dangerous), however I don't see how that justifies ignoring other dangers created by some on escooters..

 

[BigTom]

You'd have a point if there was a general thread about road accidents and pedestrian safety and everyone was just going on about escooters. It isn't. It's a thread about escooters. Presumably the fact there there are car licences, points and the Highway Code indicate some attempt to control & limit cars - if I had my way I'd massively increase road safety measures and penalties for cars - but you also have to deal with what is possible over time. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread.. it makes sense if you want escooters (and cycles) to be new mass forms of transports to come down on those that are basically treating the things like toys and creating new dangers . Assuming you don't ride on pavements or through pedestrian crossings why are you so bothered by it? I get that you may be annoyed that motorists get away with loads of things, (I stopped cycling myself because I found it too dangerous), however I don't see how that justifies ignoring other dangers created by some on escooters..

Because my experience as a cyclist is that this kind of thing leads to acts of aggression on the road by drivers - I've been driven at and had things thrown at me, apparently just because I am on a bicycle. I foresee the same things happening to scooter riders. I don't see or experience anything like that whilst driving.
It's got absolutely nothing to do with ignoring anything done by anyone.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Because my experience as a cyclist is that this kind of thing leads to acts of aggression on the road by drivers - I've been driven at and had things thrown at me, apparently just because I am on a bicycle. I foresee the same things happening to scooter riders. I don't see or experience anything like that whilst driving.
It's got absolutely nothing to do with ignoring anything done by anyone.

Driving a car you have never been cut up by another vehicle? Had the V's flicked at you, had abuse shouted at you? All road users suffer from aggression from other road users. On a bike I find it is vans who are the very worst offenders, in a car it tends to be other car drivers, when driving a van it doesn't happen to me very often.

 

[BigTom]

Driving a car you have never been cut up by another vehicle? Had the V's flicked at you, had abuse shouted at you? All road users suffer from aggression from other road users. On a bike I find it is vans who are the very worst offenders, in a car it tends to be other car drivers, when driving a van it doesn't happen to me very often.

Sure but not because I've been driving a car. I've also had drivers be like that when I'm cycling but those ones were accompanied with verbal abuse that made it clear out was simply because i was on a bicycle.

Dehumanization of cyclists predicts self-reported aggressive behaviour toward them: A pilot study is a study showing how cyclists are dehumanised which leads to that kind of behaviour, and is fueled (in part obviously) by this sort of discussion of group. behaviour.

 

[teuchter]

Driving a car you experience aggression from other road users but it's rare that it's aggression that's intended to make you feel directly at threat of physical injury or indeed aggression that actually does put you at risk of physical injury. That's the difference.

And yes it's often driven by a belief that you simply shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

 

[Dogsauce]

You'd have a point if there was a general thread about road accidents and pedestrian safety and everyone was just going on about escooters. It isn't. It's a thread about escooters. Presumably the fact there there are car licences, points and the Highway Code indicate some attempt to control & limit cars

e scooters are also regulated ( legally treated the same as motorbikes), you do need to provide licence details to hire one, and can get points for offences. I see plenty of drunken idiots fucking about on them round here, but it’s not policed actively, just like most motoring stuff really.

 

[Duncan2]

People on this thread are telling me e-scooters have indicators? The ones i encounter on my way to work have no lights.Yet again startled this morning when,what appeared to be a pedestrian, well out of harms way, proved to be an e scooter which went suddenly to warp speed and shot across from nearside to offside pavement.Going right off the damn things.

 

[steveseagull]

Looks like the Met are going back to turning a blind eye again which was inevitable because of the cost of enforcement, which is good news for me.

The policy looks to be, don't be a dick and we will not screw you.

 

[Dogsauce]

Someone at work is using one of the Voi hire scooters to commute every day, takes him about ten minutes to do it, about three miles with quite a bit of climbing. Good to know they’re getting some proper use rather than just students pissing about when drunk.