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Electric cars

And another thing, the annual tax on the new car is £580 per annum for 6 years. This is because of the additional tax because of the new price of the car.

If the government wants us to get into hybrids and electrics this needs addressing. Perhaps keep the tax on ICE but not on hybrids.
 
I absolutely love my PHEV, but am appalled by how poor the fuel consumption is on a long run.

Edinburgh return, so running on petrol most of the time, returned 41mpg, my Golf diesel on the same run would average 58mpg. Around town and on short runs I get 182mpg from the PHEV so, of course, I'll win greatly on this. However, I've spent a very much larger amount on the new car, the economics don't make much sense.
That's just how hybrids are. Utterly brilliant in urban traffic, not much better than a standard ICE on a long motorway jaunt. 41 sounds quite poor though. I have a small to middling SUV with a 2L petrol, no hybrid, no turbo or anything fancy and managed 53 over the course of an hour's drive. Will concede ideal conditions on that run though. I think it doesn't help that a lot of hybrids are a standard car with a different drivetrain - even on a motorway run a Prius gets great mileage because it's designed to get great mileage. That's its raison d'etre.
 
The abuses are starting to leak out now, amongst other things. There are a few reasons why Chinese cars are cheap so no surprises about their human rights abuses.
BYD (short for Build Your Dream) is a brand I was completely unaware of until I saw a car with BYD branding parked on my street. Now they’re becoming a common sight in London and they even have a showroom in Mayfair within a stone’s throw of Rolls Royce’s, Lotus’ and Porsche’s.
 
And another thing, the annual tax on the new car is £580 per annum for 6 years. This is because of the additional tax because of the new price of the car.

If the government wants us to get into hybrids and electrics this needs addressing. Perhaps keep the tax on ICE but not on hybrids.
Why should private transport be subsidised?
 
And another thing, the annual tax on the new car is £580 per annum for 6 years. This is because of the additional tax because of the new price of the car.

If the government wants us to get into hybrids and electrics this needs addressing. Perhaps keep the tax on ICE but not on hybrids.

Hybrids are ICE, they want us to stop burning fossil fuels to power our cars.
 
That's just how hybrids are. Utterly brilliant in urban traffic, not much better than a standard ICE on a long motorway jaunt. 41 sounds quite poor though. I have a small to middling SUV with a 2L petrol, no hybrid, no turbo or anything fancy and managed 53 over the course of an hour's drive. Will concede ideal conditions on that run though. I think it doesn't help that a lot of hybrids are a standard car with a different drivetrain - even on a motorway run a Prius gets great mileage because it's designed to get great mileage. That's its raison d'etre.

Hybrids need to burn more fossil fuel to lug around batteries and electric motors. Should be taxed off the roads and the owners thrown in to penury...
 
Why should private transport be subsidised?
Leaving aside that reduced tax != subsidy, it's the government's own target to get people into EVs as quickly as possible. Costs aren't coming down fast enough for them to meet that, so the options are either to extend their target date for a certain %age of EVs on the road or to incentivise them financially in some way.

I would hard disagree that PHEVs should get that consideration though. Having an ICE as a backup is a luxury option, it's pure EVs that should have incentives.
 

2028 apparently. Been working with Toyota on it....


That's quite the reverse feret from BMW....
Germany is the largest investor in China and has been feeling the burn. Local sales there seem fairly patriotic and Chinese approach to new tech fairly magpie.

Said b4 electric cars reminds me of Dreadnoughts where from having to worry about a navy that utterly dominate to only having to keep up with building the one type of ship the likes of which the the world have ever seen.

The submarine that is hydrogen surfaces...

In other news solar panels can only get cheaper...
 
That headline is a lie because BMW aren't saying goodbye to electric. They have three really important BEV models coming out in 2025/6. iX3, Neue Klasse 3-Series and i5M.
 
At this slow pace of market penetration, and slower still growth of charging points, I wouldn’t be surprised if the ban on sale of new ICE cars is pushed back by another five years.

Wouldn't it make more sense environment-wise to seek an early ban on new diesel privately owned cars, given how much more polluting they are, and let petrol cars be for a bit longer?
 
At this slow pace of market penetration, and slower still growth of charging points, I wouldn’t be surprised if the ban on sale of new ICE cars is pushed back by another five years.

Wouldn't it make more sense environment-wise to seek an early ban on new diesel privately owned cars, given how much more polluting they are, and let petrol cars be for a bit longer?
The government(s) was hoping that the might of the auto industry would solve their climate commitments for them. Oddly enough, it seems they aren't charities. So it will either get pushed back, or they'll have to put real money into it.
 

Feel like this part kind of defeats the point...
Even though hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, it’s typically not found in its pure form and is often combined with other elements. Creating pure hydrogen for vehicles involves an energy-intensive process to break down compounds, usually derived from fossil fuels like natural gas.
I also know nothing about the technical side of things, but I'd assume that the batteries/fuel cells will still require rare and precious metals which is one of the huge problems with EVs in general.

I remember first reading about hydrogen vehicles about 15 years ago and being really excited/interested but at that time I was only thinking about the reduction in carbon emissions from driving the car, not from the production or creation of fuel.
 
I also know nothing about the technical side of things, but I'd assume that the batteries/fuel cells will still require rare and precious metals which is one of the huge problems with EVs in general.
Because a hydrogen fuel cell can't provide decent peak power, a hydrogen car is actually an EV with a hydrogen fuel cell continuously charging it. It's already an EV, they've just made it more expensive and complicated.
 
Feel like this part kind of defeats the point...

I also know nothing about the technical side of things, but I'd assume that the batteries/fuel cells will still require rare and precious metals which is one of the huge problems with EVs in general.

I remember first reading about hydrogen vehicles about 15 years ago and being really excited/interested but at that time I was only thinking about the reduction in carbon emissions from driving the car, not from the production or creation of fuel.
I think the idea is that you use electricity to create the hydrogen fuel. And that means you can use industrial electricity production at source rather than needing to store it in batteries
 
I think the idea is that you use electricity to create the hydrogen fuel. And that means you can use industrial electricity production at source rather than needing to store it in batteries
Except that storing it in batteries is way more efficient than making H2 out of it.

H2 that still needs a purification stage, compression, sending over leaky pipes somewhere (this is not the pipes' fault, H2 will slowly leak from anything you put it in), transfer to a cylinder, convert into electricity again, feed into a battery and power the motor. The first law of thermodynamics tells you right off this is a shit way to do things compared to just generator->power lines->battery->motor.

Hydrogen storage is as dense as it can get. Again, you're battling physics. Battery density is nowhere near topping out yet. Hydrogen's only advantage is a quick top up compared to charging, but if battery density continues to improve you'll be comparing a quick fill up to an EV that has double the range to begin with.
 
Except that storing it in batteries is way more efficient than making H2 out of it.

H2 that still needs a purification stage, compression, sending over leaky pipes somewhere (this is not the pipes' fault, H2 will slowly leak from anything you put it in), transfer to a cylinder, convert into electricity again, feed into a battery and power the motor. The first law of thermodynamics tells you right off this is a shit way to do things compared to just generator->power lines->battery->motor.

Hydrogen storage is as dense as it can get. Again, you're battling physics. Battery density is nowhere near topping out yet. Hydrogen's only advantage is a quick top up compared to charging, but if battery density continues to improve you'll be comparing a quick fill up to an EV that has double the range to begin with.

95% of global H production is 'grey'. That is, it's produced from fossil fuels by steam reforming. So it just moves the CO2 emissions from the vehicle to the H facility. There might be some economies of scale by doing that but it doesn't compensate for the cost and complexity of FCEV engineering. It might have a place for heavy plant and aviation.
 
How about this for a small useable EV. A claimed range of 250 miles and under £30,000
View attachment 448033
More interesting in that article is the mention that they are also rebooting the R5, which not only looks way cooler but it’s just 25k, which seems pretty reasonable for an EV


Both the 4 and 5 models bring back happy childhood memories. But the former was a tradesman / farmer vehicle, while the R5 was at the top of the wish list of any youngster as their first car, in France and Spain at least. The Renault 5 Turbo was genuine teenage car porn :D
 
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I just hope they’ll be okay reliability-wise. I suspect Renault do not do that well compared with their German, never mind Japanese or Korean rivals.
 
More interesting in that article is the mention that they are also rebooting the R5, which not only looks way cooler but it’s just 25k, which seems pretty reasonable for an EV


Both the 4 and 5 models bring back happy childhood memories. But the former was a tradesman / farmer vehicle, while the R5 was at the top of the wish list of any youngster as their first car, in France and Spain at least. The Renault 5 Turbo was genuine teenage car porn :D
Not many teens could afford to insure a 5 turbo! Absolute angel of death reputation for good reason. Up there with the old 911s before they tamed them for most deadly car on the road.
 
Not many teens could afford to insure a 5 turbo! Absolute angel of death reputation for good reason. Up there with the old 911s before they tamed them for most deadly car on the road.
Oh I know. The turbo lag and subsequent wild boost totalled a great many of them. Those wide back wheel arches, though :D
 
Oh I know. The turbo lag and subsequent wild boost totalled a great many of them. Those wide back wheel arches, though :D


Unlike a few of my other previously owned 'hero' cars the R5 Turbo 2 is not one I wish I still had. I have one in GT7 and they have done a reasonably good job of modelling its unique handling characteristics. If you brake with more than about 5 degrees of steering input you will be hitting the apex of the bend going backwards. You can tune this out to some extent with really stiff front springs and dampers but the tendency is always there... lurking...
 
My electric lease car has been delayed until probably March. I ordered it in May and the date has been moved 3 times.

I could cancel and choose something else but unless it’s a car that’s in stock I might end up waiting as long anyway. I’m so frustrated!
 
My electric lease car has been delayed until probably March. I ordered it in May and the date has been moved 3 times.

I could cancel and choose something else but unless it’s a car that’s in stock I might end up waiting as long anyway. I’m so frustrated!

Guy who rents an office in the same building as me has this week taken a £155,000 Louts ev on lease, 3 years £6k up-front, £650 a month. We're fairly certain the leasing company has fucked up, over 3 years that's just shy of £30k, drive a £155k Lotus out of the showroom and it devalues by more than that within 10 yards.
 
Guy who rents an office in the same building as me has this week taken a £155,000 Louts ev on lease, 3 years £6k up-front, £650 a month. We're fairly certain the leasing company has fucked up, over 3 years that's just shy of £30k, drive a £155k Lotus out of the showroom and it devalues by more than that within 10 yards.
It's just a High end Chinese EV.
 
It does seem a ridiculously cheap monthly payment for that car.
On my employers scheme the most expensive car is a merc for 100k and the monthly cost is £949.
ETA not the most expensive, I’d searched wrong.

Mine works out a bit less that the monthly PCP on my CRV but includes everything so I’m saving overall.

I think I’ll probably wait til March because I can’t actually find anything I like nearly as much as the Buzz.
 
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