Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Tanks now in Tahrir square. The last I saw on TV a little while back was masses of people in Tahrir.
Egypt anti-government protests grow
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Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Channel 4 News came live from Tahrir Square. It does look like a military coup. An announcement has been made by the Army saying there is to be an interim regime leading to new elections.
According to one Egyptian interviewed in Tahrir there are 80 million people on the streets demanding that Morsi stands down and an estimated ten million are protesting on behalf of Morsi who has now reportedly been made to stand down.
The army has announced that there is to be an interim government with civilians in charge backed by the army and new elections for a new president and a new parliament.
This live as I write.
According to one Egyptian interviewed in Tahrir there are 80 million people on the streets demanding that Morsi stands down and an estimated ten million are protesting on behalf of Morsi who has now reportedly been made to stand down.
The army has announced that there is to be an interim government with civilians in charge backed by the army and new elections for a new president and a new parliament.
This live as I write.
I don't think that's right, 18 surely? Egypt's population is 84.5 million.
80 plus ten makes 90. So given that both numbers are guesses not that far out. There are though other political groups which were not mentioned.
Yes it is probably just rhetoric, I don't know who the person being inverviewed was - probably just a random person from the crowd. The army does seem to have taken control though and says it doesn't want to rule. The Muslim Brotherhood had a rival big crowd away from Tahrir square and the cameras showed this and some of them were interviewed. There were shootings last night. Of whom and by whom is not clear. A sniper on a roof was mentioned.
I might watch the re-run of Channel 4 News at 8:00 pm
I did that and listened carefully. The speaker actually said "18 to 30 million" in Tahir square with one million on the side of Morsi.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I don't think the detailed army announcement has been made yet but its still fairly clear whats happening. At least one Egyptian newspaper website says that Morsi has been told he isn't president as of 7pm Egyptian time. Al Jazeera reports that high-ranking MB figures have received a travel ban.
The expectation is that El-Baradei, the head of the coptic church and the head of Al-Azhar (Sunni Islam seat of learning) will be involved in the announcement about the interim roadmap.
The expectation is that El-Baradei, the head of the coptic church and the head of Al-Azhar (Sunni Islam seat of learning) will be involved in the announcement about the interim roadmap.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Smooth bastards having the sheikh of Al Azhar, the Coptic Pope and El Baradei at this live conference for the Roadmap.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Is technocrat even a word in Arabic?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Tahrir going nutty
elbows
Well-Known Member
Well I'd say the new generation of military leaders are capable of presenting a less farcical message in public than the old ones that Morsi retired were.
Beyond that I don't have high hopes. The bare minimum that has been achieved in recent years was the removal of a regime figurehead and some of his mates, the retirement of some military leaders and now the partially self-inflicted erosion of Muslim Brotherhood power. Throughout, the power of the military has been broadly consistent and there is no sign of any groups that can seriously challenge them.
Beyond that I don't have high hopes. The bare minimum that has been achieved in recent years was the removal of a regime figurehead and some of his mates, the retirement of some military leaders and now the partially self-inflicted erosion of Muslim Brotherhood power. Throughout, the power of the military has been broadly consistent and there is no sign of any groups that can seriously challenge them.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
They still haven't sent in the military to take over the Presidential Twitter account yet
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Misr-25 and Hafez are both MB channels, and have been full of deliberate lies/falsifications the past months and days esp since the new November constitution that was rammed through let's not forget on a turnout of under 35% with a 65% yes vote.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
El Baradei said almost nothing of note of course. But the mere fact that Sisi felt obliged to have him front this is cheering to me at least. Two years on, the Egyptian people are still bloody ungovernable and SCAF don't know who is going to change that for them.
They've tried direct rule, they tried Shafiq, they tried the MB but nobody has managed to end the revolution and return normalcy. Fat chance El Baradei can either of course. On we go to the next phase.
They've tried direct rule, they tried Shafiq, they tried the MB but nobody has managed to end the revolution and return normalcy. Fat chance El Baradei can either of course. On we go to the next phase.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, that sounds about right. Egypt appears as deeply divided city/country as ever, and I have no idea how you bridge the gap.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Those who seek to govern, including El Baradei, must hold themselves at least partly responsible for their inability to reach out to the rural poor, though.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Key now is class politics emerging. Loving the graffiti people are tweeting "We don't need fucking beards. We need bread" Even arch bourgeois liberal El Baradei had to put social justice ahead of freedom in his speech. The expectation now will be palpable.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
The problem is there no socialist organisation within the military that can stop a general-imposed coup. It won't be like the 1952 coup and the 1954 reorganisation that came from junior officers to bring down 'democratically elected' Wafd government.
It all depends on how well the opposition - likely winners in the next election - will fulfill military needs and how willing they are to struggle against the military.
It all depends on how well the opposition - likely winners in the next election - will fulfill military needs and how willing they are to struggle against the military.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Kicking Morsi and the MB out at an election - on the grounds of their uselessness - would have been a good start in bridging that gap.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, I agree.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Rural Egyptian society is very 'feudal' esp since the infitah regime, and tend to vote en bloc according to what the headman says (almost invariably the 'conservative with the best chance of winning'). For a start there's a layer of rural migrant pickers that are barely registered, and all sorts of other land and labour complications.
Baradei as chief of Dostour Party can't reach out to the rural poor because of what the party is and who funds it - they don't want to mobilise them - something which you can't do by halves - it would disrupt production even more and have a massive knock on elsewhere.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
but what opposition? Half the crowd cheered the army, half booed when the helicopters flew over. If the MB give way without a fight (and that's a huge unknown) then the debate can stop being about secular vs Islamist. It never was really with left Islamists like Fotouh with the opposition. now we can maybe see class politics come to the fore.
elbows
Well-Known Member
They may not even be able to stand in future elections. Bit early to predict how much they will be squished in the days and months ahead but seeing as their TV stations are already off the air I don't think its impossible that they will end up being forced underground again.
In any case although there is little doubt that Islamist parties like the MB got a lot of support in recent elections, those elections were also compromised by constitutional and candidacy messes. For example in the presidential election the neo-nasserist Sabahi did pretty well too in the first round, but in the 2nd round many people had to hold their nose when faced with a dull choice between a Mubarak regime remnant and Morsi.
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