Egypt anti-government protests grow

[sihhi]

Its supporters had suffered decades of repression.

Its supporters also murdered dozens in the 1990s.

More Muslim Brother violence tonight, at least 7 killed in Cairo apparently.

We await the wails of 'poor us, all we wanted was (capitalist) "democracy and human rights" (for Muslim mothers to send their daughters to school with face veils)

 

[teqniq]

Reading Twitter it seem like complete chaos there tonight. Clashes between pro and anti Morsi supporters. Rocks, molotovs and guns. No sign of the police. SCAF are issuing press releases on TV and Facebook. Morsi is responding via Twitter and Facebook in (according to translations) an unconciliatory fashion. This is being met with widespread derision.

 

[elbows]

Morsi appears to be giving a speech that sticks to the usual themes: The youth are being used by remnants of the old regime, foreigners, blah blah blah.

 

[elbows]

He has said the word legitimacy about a million times so far.

Extra levels of absurdity stem from him having to go on about how wonderful the army are. As usual for almost all sides, they have to go on about how great the army are even if the army are the main barrier to achieving their particular aims and real change. To say this puts a straightjacket on the possibilities is rather an understatement.

He speaks of reconciliation but hasn't shown any signs to date that he is capable of such things. Oh now he is going on about an initiative regarding 'media ethics' and the responsibilities the media have, ho ho.

 

[elbows]

All sides apparently love the army, and are just protecting the revolution, guarding against counter-revolution, protecting legitimacy, etc etc.

Shame those that got to sit in the power seat after the masses got rid of Mubarak didn't bother even pretending to reform the security services for a start. And Morsi might of had slightly more luck with his extremely desperate overuse of the word legitimacy if he hadn't pulled such a clumsy stunt with the constitution and the judiciary.

 

[elbows]

Apparently he is up for shedding his own blood to safeguard 'legitimacy'.

 

[J Ed]

The problem of the left backing the reactionary horse:

http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/islamism-versus-modernism-and-their.html

Are you Howard Fuller?

 

[elbows]

'My will is the will of the people'.

 

[teqniq]

Apparently he is up for shedding his own blood to safeguard 'legitimacy'.

Baraka18: This is not a speech to Egyptians, he's speaking to his supporters, a call to fight for him #Morsi #MorsiSpeech

 

[elbows]

Yeah like one of Mubaraks last speeches in that regard, designed to rouse their own base rather than reach out much at all across a daunting divide. Lets see if it works better for him than it did for Mubarak.

An interesting test for the military too, who in the past have tended to drop a variety of bollocks when faced with delicate political situations, but tended to get away with it.

 

[sihhi]

This feels like a landmark / potential turning point.
It could be:
People doing in post-revolution Egypt now what they couldn't achieve in post-revolution Iran 1980-81, calling time on an Islamist constitution and President careering out of control. Holding new elections, trade unions strengthening themselves and achieving their aims refusing to be legalised into emptiness.
OR A prologed army coup which tightens/strengthens the Islamist movement pincer over the region from the Syria to Tunisia.

 

[teqniq]

At the end of the day the military have their hand on all the levers of power either directly or indirectly. They will not be having any hint of their empire reduced or interfered with without some kind of show of force with the final sanction of dead citizens whoever they may be. They don't particularly want to do that sort of thing imo as they prefer the power behind the throne approach but it will be the bottom line.

 

[Delroy Booth]

There's been some sort of gun battle between pro-Morsi islamists and police at Cairo university in the last few hours http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/75539.aspx

https://twitter.com/Alastair_Beach

Alastair Beach ‏@Alastair_Beach
URGENT: extremely dangerous situation developing at Cairo University

Alastair Beach ‏@Alastair_Beach
Anti Morsi ppl pushed all way up to pro Morsi rally. Heavy continuous gunfire.ringing out

Alastair Beach ‏@Alastair_Beach
Bursts of machine gun fire ringing out. An almost constant hail of fire at times, bullets and pellets shooting up Ahmed Zuwail.

Seems quite serious.

 

[sihhi]

At the end of the day the military have their hand on all the levers of power either directly or indirectly. They will not be having any hint of their empire reduced or interfered with without some kind of show of force with the final sanction of dead citizens whoever they may be. They don't particularly want to do that sort of thing imo as they prefer the power behind the throne approach but it will be the bottom line.

Morsi is not and has not been interfering with their power. That's a key reason why many are angry he did a deal with the army to get what the Islamist Brotherhood wanted not what the people wanted.

At the same time street clashes with the police staying away not stopping either side, this also eats into the military's credibility. There's also pressure building from the conscript wing of the military 'to help the country' out of a bad spot. The anti-Morsi protests are immense, every base can see what's going in, in every region, pro-Morsi Islamists ready to face down the protests with extreme violence.

 

[teqniq]

Morsi is not and has not been interfering with their power. That's a key reason why many are angry he did a deal with the army to get what the Islamist Brotherhood wanted not what the people wanted.

Agreed, up until these most recent events. But from what I am reading the Army's ultimatum has been rejected by him. He appears to have lost all credibility with anyone except his own supporters though:

TheMiinz: Sheikh Yasser Borhamy of Daawa Salafiya just said: "I am sick of this. I didn't and won't listen to him( Morsy)".

 

[Delroy Booth]

This is encouraging, all things considered

https://twitter.com/ghazalairshad/status/351763435358404608

Ghazala Irshad ‏@ghazalairshad
Tahrir sexual assault intervention volunteers prepare to prevent repeat of last night's 40+ cases #June30 pic.twitter.com/X3AP2dGqre

 

[sihhi]

Agreed, up until these most recent events. But from what I am reading the Army's ultimatum has been rejected by him. He appears to have lost all credibility with anyone except his own supporters though:

He has rejected the only reasonable thing the Army has requested - and requested by mass protest from below - to form a coalition or allow an interim regime to set new elections,
Everything else unreasonable military control over bits of armaments and heavy industry, continued prison for objectors to military service, continued military trials etc etc he has supported.

 

[teqniq]

This is encouraging, all things considered....

OpAntiSH: 25 cases have been reported tonight & only one required psych attn. The rest, bystanders & our volunteers intervened prior to escalation

 

[teqniq]

He has rejected the only reasonable thing the Army has requested - and requested by mass protest from below - to form a coalition or allow an interim regime to set new elections,
Everything else unreasonable military control over bits of armaments and heavy industry, continued prison for objectors to military service, continued military trials etc etc he has supported.

I surmise that he only supported the latter because if he hadn't he and the MB wouldn't have gotten anywhere near power. As for the former it's throw your toys out of the pram stuff, the guys' a fool and looking pretty much finished.

E2A an interesting angle:

Morsi role at Syria rally seen as tipping point for Egypt army

 

[sihhi]

I surmise that he only supported the latter because if he hadn't he and the MB wouldn't have gotten anywhere near power. As for the former it's throw your toys out of the pram stuff, the guys' a fool and looking pretty much finished.

They could have if they had actually become a real opposition against the army - like the socialists and social democrats tried to back 18 mths ago. Instead they rode the coat-tails of the army, welcomed as the army dispersed protests.

Anyway, it's frustrating because the head of Turkey's semi-official news agency has just tweeted #WeAreWithMorsi ostensibly while reporting events.

 

[sihhi]

Are people following from outside Cairo University on Al Jazeera Egypt

http://www.livestation.com/en/aljazeera-mubasher-misr

Listening for the odd words I can make out. They were chanting the people united will never be deafeted.

 

[sihhi]

According to tweets though the coverage is very pro-Morsi, the events at Cairo University are apparently a raid on a pro-Morsi occupation of a building and pro-Morsi protest from it, firearms from both sides, victims from pro-Morsi side apparently.

 

[Delroy Booth]

This article could go in the Syria thread too arguably, talking about how Morsi's involvement in Syria alongside other Jihadi's is one the "tipping points" for the army and their decision to oust Morsi.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...een-as-tipping-point-for-egypt-army-1.1450612

Army concern about the way President Mohamed Morsi was governing Egypt reached tipping point when the head of state attended a rally packed with hardline fellow Islamists calling for holy war in Syria, military sources have said.

At the June 15th rally, Sunni Muslim clerics used the word “infidels” to denounce both the Shias fighting to protect Syrian president Bashar al-Assad and the non-Islamists that oppose Mr Morsi at home.

 

[sihhi]

This article could go in the Syria thread too arguably, talking about how Morsi's involvement in Syria alongside other Jihadi's is one the "tipping points" for the army and their decision to oust Morsi.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...een-as-tipping-point-for-egypt-army-1.1450612

Already posted above.

Are you reading people's posts?

 

[Delroy Booth]

Already posted above.

Are you reading people's posts?

oops apologies. Little bit distracted atm.

 

[butchersapron]

Really interesting point about the potential wider regional ramifications made on angryarab yesterday:

This is quite amazing. If the Brotherhood in any Arab country raises the slogan of the "Islamic solution", people know that it has no meaning or promise. If they raise the slogan of Jihad, people will remember the letter of Morsi to Shimon Peres. If they speak about the dignity of the ummah, people will remember the cozy relationship between Morsi and the US administration. There is a window for new groups to emerge now, and the beauty of it all is that the lousy Salafis are tainted along with the MB.

 

[butchersapron]

SCAF to make a statement at 4:30pm Cairo time

 

[elbows]

Via the BBC: Military officers are present in Egypt's state TV newsroom, monitoring content before the ultimatum deadline, according to Associated Press.

And earlier: Staff at Egypt state TV building say an army officer went round this morning telling non-essential staff to leave.

 

[sihhi]

Military coming good on their word

Tanks in the Cairo streets, state media taken away from pro-Morsi control, tanks heading to Parliament.

 

[treelover]

Reading Twitter it seem like complete chaos there tonight. Clashes between pro and anti Morsi supporters. Rocks, molotovs and guns. No sign of the police. SCAF are issuing press releases on TV and Facebook. Morsi is responding via Twitter and Facebook in (according to translations) an unconciliatory fashion. This is being met with widespread derision.

https://twitter.com/Gsquare86

Gigi Ibrahim was reporting That there had been a number of rapes and assaults against women in the protests.