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EDL watch

DotCommunist said:
i challenge anyone to go on a TUC march and remain sober while listening to shithouse union leaders and lauborite liars.
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perhaps this is a new thread but i once saw rodney bickerstaffe at a TU march and he was a surprisingly good speaker and funny! any others? Benn always good.
 
in newcastle today I sat and watched a unity demo by sunni and shia muslimns from iraq saying they don't want war or isis terrorists. loads of kids and women taking the mic and leading chanting. great friendly atmosphere. Meanwhile in sunderland there's a gang of fascists getting pissed and taking pictures of themselves outside some crappy boozer. I know which group made the biggest positive impression today!
 
i aint massively clued up on various strands of islam. just that 5,000 against extremism is more than the EDL cd ever hope to get these days.
 
malatesta32 said:
i think the point was their arrogance and stupidity rather than their drugs of choice. Mik, the problems that the EDL have had with membership retention is exactly that 'those on EDL marches aren't there because they've had a few cans of crap lager.' those who were put back inside are 'Adolf Hitler-loving "14 words nazis" the "BRITISH INFIDELS" [who] are helping organise the Islamophobic anti-mosque march in Bolton this Saturday, as hardcore nazi groups fill the void.' these fuckbugles attacked what they thought were antifascist musicians. fuck em (sneaks off for a line o' cheap wizz and a wee bottle o' bucky).
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and if the point was their stupidity, perhaps make that point, and leave the sneering as to their drugs of choice to celebrate out of it. That was my point. If they had calmly discussed their predicament whilst quaffing a couple of glasses of merlot in a wine bar, would that have warranted a mention>

after the failure of 'Operation Blackshirt', I remember being bought free fizzy wine by the Searchlight team in the most local wine bar to the court. We wasn't enjoying it (partly due to having to have a word with some city banker types who were being loudly sexist to some women drinkers) We repaired to one of the less celebrated pubs in North London, for some cheaper beer. Nothing to be sneered at.

btw, I don't view fascism as 'stupid'. Rather a strategy for capitalism to go for in certain circumstances, if they're allowed to (if 'we' allow them)

Of British ruling class theoretical origin if I'm not mistaken.

Also, I can understand the attractions of the 'Right' way of thinking of many disenfranchised working class...especially given the alternative offered by the middle class condescending Trotskyists and the betrayals of social democracy that have dominated 'the Left' and that has been offered to them.

They are mostly on those marches, or attracted to them, or certainly have disdain for us, will rarely talk to us, because of our failure.. not their stupidity.

Otherwise, better education equals no far right, no fascism...which is clearly bollox.


When I have talked to those who are attracted to far right politics (and they are attracted mainly due to recognising their shit situation and want to change things), I have to spend the first part of any chat explaining the failures of the left, explaining away the (middle) class nature of those who claim to be revolutionaries and talk for the working classes, holding their lollipops, behind the police and barriers....have to explain away their sneering.

It doesn't help; it hinders. Leaves us starting at two nil down.


I could also argue, that it is the failure of The Left, the failure of their strategy over 100 years, that is stupid, as it hasn't worked.

For those same 'Left' to continue to repeat that strategy....worse, for them to now even ask for the state to not only protect them, but to sanction the fascists, is more than stupid.

It is counter productive
 
On the point about how 'the left' and/or liberals describe the edl, we've got them coming to Middlesbrough on Saturday. I dug out a youtube clip from the last time they were here and the comments are very telling. Needless to say, the edl chants are fucking grim and racist, that goes without saying - FFS it's the edl! But the sneering anti-working class comments below the video are in their own way almost as depresing:



For example:

"this makes me ashamed ro be from Middlesbrough the only people walking around there are the dregs of society on benefits being racist drinking and on drugs pathetic mindless idiots that are doing nothing but making Middlesbrough and anywhere else they drag themselves an embarrassment the majority of them are in and out of prison for violence drug dealing and the rest waste of police time when theres people who need help or have been kidnapped or killed the police are just as bad for letting them carry on!"

"The dumbest people in society, right outside a university, how ironic."

"Also the person taking this video is rattling for his smack n so are the bunch of bag heads he's following, tramps man!"

"Look at these malformed, piece of shit, racist troglodytes that look, sound and behave exactly like the far right protestors of the 80's and 90's. "We're not racist but paki, paki, paki".
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Youtube comments are not representative - of anything - and the people commenting may not be 'lefts' of any stripe, but they do illustrate the problem. Detest the edl because they are racist fucks, not because they are working class.
 
DotCommunist said:
tbf youtube is full of comments people say on youtube because if they said it in the pub they'd be picking up their own teeth in short order
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This one's better, give or take the 'thick' bit. In a monkeys and typewriters way, sometimes youtube gets it right. :thumbs:

"Who's streets?" not yours you fucking arseholes. Everyone of you pigshit thick as fuck racist cunts fuck off out of Boro. Do you have any clue at all about how the town was formed? Who built it, who supported its growth? It wasn't wankers like you. You lot are an embarrassment to a great town, thank fuck the majority of us in Boro are still great people who can see ignorant fucktards like you for the dirty shitbags you are. Fuck off out of my town. Cunts
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its odd, once in the olden days it was free to go to uni, you got a grant and worked a part time job, but it was still seen as elite. Now w/c people are actively priced out of it by the thought of a 30-40k denbt and its all 'useless redbrick jumped up polytechnics giving out worthless degrees to oiks'

how did that happen. Probably best to blame clegg for now.
 
I am not sneering over their choice of stimulants – I am in no position to criticise ‘excessive recreational behaviour’ – but their actions whilst under the inluence: seig heiling, posting pix etc – which is impaired judgement that has stupid consequences, ie, get fucked up, brag about it and return to jail. That is stupid.

‘Also, I can understand the attractions of the 'Right' way of thinking of many disenfranchised working class...especially given the alternative offered by the middle class condescending Trotskyists and the betrayals of social democracy that have dominated 'the Left' and that has been offered to them.’

Mal: agreed.

They are mostly on those marches, or attracted to them, or certainly have disdain for us, will rarely talk to us, because ofour failure.. nottheir stupidity.

Mal: I am not sure antifascism has ‘failed’ and it is not antifascists fault that some people remain resolute nazis despite our best attempts.
 
malatesta32 said:
I am not sneering over their choice of stimulants – I am in no position to criticise ‘excessive recreational behaviour’ – but their actions whilst under the inluence: seig heiling, posting pix etc – which is impaired judgement that has stupid consequences, ie, get fucked up, brag about it and return to jail. That is stupid.

‘Also, I can understand the attractions of the 'Right' way of thinking of many disenfranchised working class...especially given the alternative offered by the middle class condescending Trotskyists and the betrayals of social democracy that have dominated 'the Left' and that has been offered to them.’

Mal: agreed.

They are mostly on those marches, or attracted to them, or certainly have disdain for us, will rarely talk to us, because ofour failure.. nottheir stupidity.

Mal: I am not sure antifascism has ‘failed’ and it is not antifascists fault that some people remain resolute nazis despite our best attempts.
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if you're in tottenham this weekend am happy to meet up over chumly ales to discuss.
 
malatesta32 said:
I am not sneering over their choice of stimulants – I am in no position to criticise ‘excessive recreational behaviour’ – but their actions whilst under the inluence: seig heiling, posting pix etc – which is impaired judgement that has stupid consequences, ie, get fucked up, brag about it and return to jail. That is stupid.

‘Also, I can understand the attractions of the 'Right' way of thinking of many disenfranchised working class...especially given the alternative offered by the middle class condescending Trotskyists and the betrayals of social democracy that have dominated 'the Left' and that has been offered to them.’

Mal: agreed.

They are mostly on those marches, or attracted to them, or certainly have disdain for us, will rarely talk to us, because ofour failure.. nottheir stupidity.

Mal: I am not sure antifascism has ‘failed’ and it is not antifascists fault that some people remain resolute nazis despite our best attempts.
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wasn't saying anti fascism failed; just that 'The Left' hasn't attracted those working class on EDL marches . I was part of an anti fascist grouping that succeeded in their aims. But it was only stopping something; point was to eventually replace it with something - and that means attracting those same working class to our cause. Evidently, that is still clearly failing in the 20 years since (some localised success by IWCA not withstanding).


'recreational use' helping them to get nicked again?....ok, well, good. If that was your intent. I was probably referring generally to a trend I've seen among some anti fascists use of language and how it can be not only revealing but counter productive. We had to put up with it as well, in the 90s. If I misinterpreted your meaning, then perhaps it shows that more care needs to be taken with language use.


while we're at it, language, if I'm down on Saturday in 'Nam...it's definitely not 'Totters' :hmm:...practice 'Tottnam', if you're with me :)

not even Tott- en-ham..Ossie Ardiles might come across as more of a local than you.

As for if I'm down, ?...rarely am in that area these days, the 'soccer-ball' as you might say, doesn't grab me in the way it used to; used to be there every other week, late 70s, 80s and mid 90s.

Depends what I've got on here. But will also have a look around to see if groups holding demo have done any work in the local area. A very rich mix of locals that may be got for anti fascism. Also, maybe not the kind of area outsiders might want to be caught in thinking they can stroll around like they own the manor. (applies to all any groups btw; not saying you or any anti fash are guilty of that ..haven't looked yet)

if not this time, then will be glad to meet up for a few beers another.
 
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