EDL watch

[Gerry1time]

The language here at the time of the Romans is still here, in Wales, Scotland and Cornwall. The Saxons, Angles and Jutes drove the indigenous population into what is now Wales.

It's increasingly looking like they didn't in many places. For example, the Dobunni, the pre-roman celtic tribe round here (Bristol and up into the Cotswolds), seem to have continued on pretty much unchanged, apart from being renamed the Hwicce, right through Saxon times. Theology, boundaries and population all largely unchanged. Even the word Hwicce recognises the celtic belief systems. New words were introduced of course, but many celtic place names still survive in different places, the multiple River Avons being notable examples.

If anything it was the Normans that brought the greatest changes, but then they themselves were originally Viking.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Spackleszie Deutch ?

Personally I preferred the ones John Hughes directed himself.

 

[Sprocket.]

It's increasingly looking like they didn't in many places. For example, the Dobunni, the pre-roman celtic tribe round here (Bristol and up into the Cotswolds), seem to have continued on pretty much unchanged, apart from being renamed the Hwicce, right through Saxon times. Theology, boundaries and population all largely unchanged. Even the word Hwicce recognises the celtic belief systems. New words were introduced of course, but many celtic place names still survive in different places, the multiple River Avons being notable examples.

If anything it was the Normans that brought the greatest changes, but then they themselves were originally Viking.

Precisely, I may not have expressed it in such an academic way but my point being we are all from immigrant stock even the Celts.
It is borders, whether physical,cultural, religious or by language that make us open to exploitation by the elites.
Fascists are fuelled by fear, ignorance and intolerance.
Perhaps instead of seeing them all as jack booted thugs,we should see them for what they basically are, scared workers who have been easily swayed by the influence of those who gain profit from our divisions.

 

[malatesta32]

There's a tendency among lefties to confuse skin pigmentation with 'anti-racism', which is in itself a bit patronising and racist innit?

A football firm that is multiracial in make-up does not automatically confer 'anti-fascist' or 'anti-racist' status on it. Cass Pennant at West Ham, for example, is a good bloke who stands for no racism around him, but the penny hasn't dropped yet with regard to the fash from Lazio that have established relations with the ICF in recent years.

dead right. just cos you have 'loads of black mates' does not mean you cant be racist against other folk. in hickmotts massively disingenuous book, armed for the match, there is a guy up on the headhunters trial called 'black willie' who had a red hand badge and claimed he didnt know what it meant just that 'the colours look good.' such shite. and black people cant be racist? hmm.

 

[butchersapron]

Hang on, a black bloke hanging around with racists doesn't make him racist. A bit of a mug yes, but why racist?

Stop reading these idiot hooligan books as well.

 

[malatesta32]

because the headhunters had well known connections to C18 etc.
they are not 'idiot hooligan books' they are 'working class oral histories full of truthful accounts from folks who never did nuffink honest officer.'

 

[malatesta32]

i didnt say BW was racist by the way. just that he hung about with known racists.

 

[butchersapron]

That's not an answer to my question.

 

[butchersapron]

i didnt say BW was racist by the way. just that he hung about with known racists.

You tied the informal grouping of some black people with these other people as proof that black racism exists in society. The latter point is not made by the former at all. You don't actually spend all your time with your hooligan mates btw. You don't go to the pictures together.

 

[malatesta32]

'Hang on, a black bloke hanging around with racists doesn't make him racist. A bit of a mug yes, but why racist?'
i didnt say BW was racist by the way. just that he hung about with known racists.'

also i dont believe he didnt know what the Red Hand badge was given the amount of loyalist shit in footy.
i also said black people can be racist and white people who have black mates can be racist too.

 

[malatesta32]

You don't actually spend all your time with your hooligan mates btw. You don't go to the pictures together.

yes sometimes you go to the discoteque as well!

 

[malatesta32]

You tied the informal grouping of some black people with these other people as proof that black racism exists in society. The latter point is not made by the former at all. You don't actually spend all your time with your hooligan mates btw. You don't go to the pictures together.

do you not think black people are racist? do you not think BW was aware of loyalist politics? and far right connections? i have never worn a badge without knowing what it symbolised.

 

[butchersapron]

Of course black people can be racist ffs. Guess what they can be loyalists too. Esp in liverpool. Who though, was using this bw prat as a symbol for all black people who sometimes end up on the same side as racists during 'an event'.

 

[Citizen66]

I have good mates who were involved with Villa's firm and who went on to become AFA activists in Birmingham. A few lads that did the business regularly with AFA were well-known 'faces' at Villa in the 80's, but they also had to watch their backs constantly as the firm was predominantly fash.

I'm perplexed about the appeal of football firms for the most part but even more so when it's anti-fash fighting alongside fash. The mind boggles.

 

[tony.c]

In the 70s there used to be the odd mixed race teenager with their NF supporting white mates. One of the guys I knew was nicked fighting with a mixed race guy at an anti-fash mobilisation in Welling. The OB thought my mate was the fash, and the mixed race guy got a few slaps in the police van. My mate got some food in the cells while the other guy got nothing.
When it came to court, they met outside and agreed to say it was nothing political, just an argument over some owed money, and they both got conditional discharges.

 

[framed]

Of course black people can be racist ffs. Guess what they can be loyalists too. Esp in liverpool. Who though, was using this bw prat as a symbol for all black people who sometimes end up on the same side as racists during 'an event'.

I doubt that BW was someone who just happened to end up on the same side as racists at 'an event'. He was a black man who was a member of a football firm that was not just predominated by racists, it was run by organised fascists.

In lefty parlance, he was reinforcing his own oppression, unwittingly, but all the same...

Now, let me check my privilege...

 

[butchersapron]

do you not think black people are racist? do you not think BW was aware of loyalist politics? and far right connections? i have never worn a badge without knowing what it symbolised.

I don't think black people are racist, no. I don't think white people are racist either.

 

[butchersapron]

I doubt that BW was someone who just happened to end up on the same side as racists at 'an event'. He was a black man who was a member of a football firm that was not just predominated by racists, it was run by organised fascists.

In lefty parlance, he was reinforcing his own oppression, unwittingly, but all the same...

Now, let me check my privilege...

Once more, i'm not on about bw - i'm on about more than that. The idea that if you fight with someone you therefore share their ideas lock stock, you yourself rather undermined that idea in your posts above. Does it only work in certain cases?

 

[malatesta32]

Of course black people can be racist ffs. Guess what they can be loyalists too. Esp in liverpool. Who though, was using this bw prat as a symbol for all black people who sometimes end up on the same side as racists during 'an event'.

i wasnt using him to say all black people are racist. i said
'there is a guy up on the headhunters trial called 'black willie' who had a red hand badge and claimed he didnt know what it meant just that 'the colours look good.' such shite. and black people cant be racist? hmm.'

note full stop which denotes a new idea or concept.

 

[butchersapron]

Which full stop are you on about? What's the new idea or concept? I only see one consistent idea across the whole post.

 

[framed]

I'm perplexed about the appeal of football firms for the most part but even more so when it's anti-fash fighting alongside fash. The mind boggles.

I said that some of those who eventually got involved in AFA in Brum had a past at Villa in the 80's, they weren't all rounded out lefties and anti-fascists in their teens. There were various little firms attached to Villa that came together on match days. There was conflict within the firm between the Villa NF and a group of lads who came mainly from Irish backgrounds, it wasn't a case of being 'all in it together' and I did not imply anything of the sort in my op.

 

[framed]

Once more, i'm not on about bw - i'm on about more than that. The idea that if you fight with someone you therefore share their ideas lock stock, you yourself rather undermined that idea in your posts above. Does it only work in certain cases?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[butchersapron]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

HOOLIGANS!!!!! HOOLIGANS!!! MILO BOOKS!!!!! FACES!!! LADS!!!! MOBBING UP!!!!! DONE 'EM PROPER!!!!!

 

[Citizen66]

I said that some of those who eventually got involved in AFA in Brum had a past at Villa in the 80's, they weren't all rounded out lefties and anti-fascists in their teens. There were various little firms attached to Villa that came together on match days. There was conflict within the firm between the Villa NF and a group of lads who came mainly from Irish backgrounds, it wasn't a case of being 'all in it together' and I did not imply anything of the sort in my op.

Fair dos. I thought you meant simultaneously.

 

[framed]

Fair dos. I thought you meant simultaneously.

No mate, apologies if I gave that impression...

 

[framed]

HOOLIGANS!!!!! HOOLIGANS!!! MILO BOOKS!!!!! FACES!!! LADS!!!! MOBBING UP!!!!! DONE 'EM PROPER!!!!!

Oh do fuck off you knob... how many fash did you do last Saturday, there was plenty in your town, wasn't there?

 

[butchersapron]

None, there was a few people who turned up for a gig at a venue we often use and we got some info from a bit of spotting, but not quite what we were after. Anything else in the local circumstances would have been stupid.

 

[framed]

None, there was a few people who turned up for a gig at a venue we often use and we got some info from a bit of spotting, but not quite what we were after. Anything else in the local circumstances would have been stupid.

Good for you, just a few people turned up for a gig was it... lol

 

[butchersapron]

Hang on, you mean the rangers city thing, not the gig at the sportsman? In that case, what are you suggesting should have been done?

 

[framed]

Hang on, you mean the rangers city thing, not the gig at the sportsman? In that case, what are you suggesting should have been done?

I'm not suggesting anything, just asking questions of the man who likes to scoff...